re: Two black guys show up to civil war reenactment as slaves trying to be a part of it lol

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Same. African slavery still exists. It never ended.

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Uh, the specific system of African tribal slavery based on the loser in warfare serving time under the 'winner' definitely ended. So again, you don't know what I'm referring to here. Nicely done.

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I'm sure there were just as many Africans who were racist against Europeans, but that doesn't make slavery more racist. The main reason for the color of the skin of people who were slaves was the overwhelming supply of those people to be purchased.

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Again, European chattel slavery was racist, unless you want us to ignore what the Europeans themselves wrote. You can't discount 1st-person documentation because you don't like it.

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Again, prominent Confederate and secessionist leaders of the day have explicitly given you your answer regarding what race and why. They are not my words or reasons.

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I see you can't answer the question. Blows up your narrative too easily?

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There were black slave owners in the South, so why is it far-fetched to believe there couldn't be black combat soldiers for the South as well?

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Who the frick cares about it being far-fetched? You can either back-up the claim or you can't. There is no imagination needed when we have plenty of source documentation. You understand that right?

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I'll grant you that there weren't many black Confederates, but that it (as well as black plantation owners) are such hidden knowledge is part of the bigger issue of people playing politics with history to view it simply as black or white (pardon the pun) instead of seeing it fully.

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It isn't hidden knowledge. What are you talking about?

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You still haven't explained how slavery was based off of racism when clearly free men off ALL colors owned slaves. This wasn't just in the south as the exact same was in the North. And to know who slaves were we should start at the beginning point. Black slaves from Africa were enslaved from the start by other tribes who also were black. That's not a popular discussion but it's a true fact of slavery.

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This isn't about from the start. This thread is about the Civil War era. By that time, the international slave trade had been abolished and slaves were largely bred, bought, and sold internally.

By the time of the Civil War, Confederate and secessionist leaders often explicitly argued that enslaving black people was the natural condition of the African race and morally good. Their enslavement based on race is explicitly argued time and time and time again. A couple of examples of black slaveowners doesn't change that.

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I love the people in these threads who think the questionable presence of a dozen black soliders for the Confederacy somehow means that 4 million black slaves were all secretly big fans of states' rights.

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Who said this?

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But I guess it's the same mentality that says "the election was robbed because everyone I know voted for Candidate X!"

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Oh, nevermind. You're one of those.

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You can either back-up the claim or you can't. There is no

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William "April"Ellison was a black slave owner in South Carolina who had 2 sons fight for the Confederacy.

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You didn't understand what I meant, clearly had no background with it, and then kept talking about modern slavery as though that was relevant to the point.

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Absolutely incorrect. You're still trying to talk about African and Asian slavery as if those things ever ended. Until you are capable of coming up with an argument without this failing, there's nothing to discuss. You clearly haven't put critical thought into this.

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I guess you are giving up the line that European chattel slavery wasn't inherently racist, lol.

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No. Slavery has never been inherently racist. Terrible, for sure, and I absolutely oppose it, but the slavery in our past isn't worse than any other slavery that existed at the time or exists today. I won't pretend otherwise.

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But only one side has actual facts to back it up.

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I heard the same horseshite from Abrams supporters during the last Georgia gubernatorial election.

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William "April"Ellison was a black slave owner in South Carolina who had 2 sons fight for the Confederacy.

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A grandson, according to the Larry Koger book.

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You're still trying to talk about African and Asian slavery as if those things ever ended

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They did exist, and they differed in meaningful ways from European chattel slavery. Do you know how they differed? Do you care?

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Slavery has never been inherently racist.

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Again, if I take the 1st-person source documentation at its word, this is wrong, completely and utterly, with respect to European chattel slavery. If we are talking about slavery as a broad concept, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the self-justification apparatus that developed in Europe used specifically racial qualifications.