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re: The size of the observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:13 pm to yankeeundercover
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:13 pm to yankeeundercover
0
Posted on 5/20/21 at 11:26 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:
If deities (for which there is zero hard evidence) are admissible, why not all the other craziness? You can't show me a deity anymore than I can show you a gremlin, a ghost, an alien, Bigfoot, or whatever.
Again, you don't see any evidence of bias? I would never call someone who believed in the supernatural crazy, unless I somehow stumbled onto some irrefutable scientific fact that disproves it.
quote:
All possibilities? There's pretty much no such thing as an impossibility if unverified supernatural causes can be used at any time. I mean, if John Doe...
I was hoping that you would have taken a reasonable interpretation of what I said, not taking it 100% literally. Forgive me..."other possibilities." You spent so much time on this, that you didn't address my point.
quote:
It just doesn't work, just like God doesn't work in science. That's not to say we know with 100% certainty that no supernatural entity (be it God or whatever) has never intervened in the material world, but until it's proven beyond all doubt that any such entities exist, strict naturalism is the only way to go. And I think that's further reinforced by the fact that countless times throughout history supernatural explanations submitted out of ignorance have been overturned as science has progressed.
So since humanity's understanding of the natural has been wrong countless times over the millennia is the supernatural the only way to go when it comes to science? Of course not. You can't have it both ways and use that as a reason to cancel out any supernatural possibilities.
I'm not trying to convince you to believe in God, the devil, or bigfoot. My whole point is that sometimes overly zealous scientists, in an effort to prove creation without any involvement of a creator, bend over backwards to come up with outlandish theories that require more faith than the possibility that a deity could have placed order, structure, or the building blocks required to expand our universe.
If you want to believe that radiation/energy were "always there" to spontaneously generate matter and anti-matter to form the universe that's your choice, but let's not pretend it's any more plausible than an uneducated person's belief that something supernatural caused the universe's expansion. In the end, both ideas require faith.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 1:01 am to LSUdc
quote:
Again, you don't see any evidence of bias? I would never call someone who believed in the supernatural crazy, unless I somehow stumbled onto some irrefutable scientific fact that disproves it.
I suspect you only consider it "biased" as it pertains to scientific topics that tread on religious grounds, such as the origin of the Universe and evolution. To me, though, those topics are no different from gravity or atomic energy.
I don't admit the supernatural into any realm of science, because there's no hard evidence for it. And I don't imagine you do, either, on more mundane sciences that do not challenge (or have any affiliation with) your belief system.
What I do believe is the natural world is all that we are collectively able to study and examine. We have made enormous scientific strides due that approach, sometimes even against strong religious opposition.
I also believe that it is far more reasonable that future generations will solve many of today's mysteries than to think we have hit a solid wall somewhere and only "God did it" can be the answer. I'm okay passing the baton. It's okay to say "I don't know."
I also think that many answers might be beyond us.
quote:
I was hoping that you would have taken a reasonable interpretation of what I said, not taking it 100% literally. Forgive me..."other possibilities." You spent so much time on this, that you didn't address my point.
What you seem to want is for science to include only what's relevant to your religion, but it doesn't work that way. There are plenty of pseudosciences out there that want respect from the mainstream.
quote:
So since humanity's understanding of the natural has been wrong countless times over the millennia is the supernatural the only way to go when it comes to science? Of course not. You can't have it both ways and use that as a reason to cancel out any supernatural possibilities.
Such nonsense.
The fact is the mainstream approach to science yields profound knowledge every single day. And yet there's not one single verifiable fact that can be attributed to what is commonly referred to as the supernatural, such as deities. Not one.
Posted on 5/21/21 at 2:57 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:
I suspect you only consider it "biased" as it pertains to scientific topics that tread on religious grounds, such as the origin of the Universe and evolution.
I don't admit the supernatural into any realm of science, because there's no hard evidence for it. And I don't imagine you do, either, on more mundane sciences that do not challenge (or have any affiliation with) your belief system.
What you seem to want is for science to include only what's relevant to your religion, but it doesn't work that way.
Absolutely not, but nice attempts to create a strawman. We should continue the ethical pursuit to understand what's happening around us.
quote:
there's not one single verifiable fact that can be attributed to what is commonly referred to as the supernatural, such as deities. Not one.
How do you know what evidence there is or isn't for the supernatural? The universe itself may be the evidence of some supernatural event that we did not witness. Dark matter probably makes more than 25% of the known universe, and yet, it technically hasn't been proven to exist. Do you not believe in it because there is no hard evidence?
Even if you never admit it, if you truly want to objectively understand the origins of the universe, calling people crazy who believe in a supernatural cause is evidence of bias. I would be interested to hear your favorite theory on the origins of matter and where the first particles came from so I can assess who has more blind faith, you or the people you think are crazy.
It is hypocritical for you to want people to open their mind to possibilities that contradict their belief system when you won't even do that yourself.
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