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re: The most misunderstood, and misapplied word in the English language is “repent”
Posted on 5/10/25 at 9:53 am to bayoubengals88
Posted on 5/10/25 at 9:53 am to bayoubengals88
The return and welcome of the prodigal son was a part of Sunday school. I only learned what prodigal means several years ago.
quote:
spending money or resources freely and recklessly; wastefully extravagant.
"prodigal habits die hard"
0
Posted on 5/10/25 at 9:55 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:Here’s the problem with overly left brained, post enlightenment, borderline atheistic Protestantism.
Give me a metric for that performance in scripture besides perfection.
Salvation is damn near scientific. No room for mystery.
Posted on 5/10/25 at 12:02 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:There’s the foundational flaw. Your view of salvation is all about you in the afterlife. That’s short sighted, modern, and western (American even). And I’m thankfully done with it.
There’s a very real difference in between salvation and sanctification, and there is never an assurance of salvation when you’re in the mix, because it is now contingent upon your performance and not the finished work of Christ.
This post was edited on 5/10/25 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 5/10/25 at 1:02 pm to Mike da Tigah
I'm a fan of etymology, but languages are not static, nor uniform, and trying to force them to be is an exercise in futility. The language you speak is a bastardization of middle English, which is a bastard mixing of mostly old English (a bastardization of old german) with old French (a bastardizarion of old german and latin), old Norse (a bastardization of old germanic) and Latin. Which are all bastardizations of Indo-European. Languages change to suit those who use them. As long as both parties use them and understand them, it is language.
Posted on 5/10/25 at 3:41 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Sounds like we have different interpretations of pistis.
What does it mean to believe?
To rely on totally. To adhere to and trust completely.
You fall off a crew boat off the coast of Scotland. Someone throws a life preserver with a line attached to it screaming above the gale, “Grab it, believe on it!”
That’s the gospel definition of “to believe”.
Posted on 5/10/25 at 4:01 pm to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
To rely on totally. To adhere to and trust completely.
Exactly right.
quote:
You fall off a crew boat off the coast of Scotland. Someone throws a life preserver with a line attached to it screaming above the gale, “Grab it, believe on it!”
Being off the coast of Scotland, I’d say it might depend on if the one throwing you a line is a Calvinist and has to check if you’re on the elect list or not.
I kid….
Great analogy. If we have to pay for it or earn it, then it ceases to be a gift, and it also ceases to be about Christ, as well as faith that what He did is sufficient to take away the sin of the world for all who will accept that as payment in full.
quote:
That’s the gospel definition of “to believe”.
Exactly right!
Posted on 5/10/25 at 10:47 pm to Mike da Tigah
Ok, so what does that look like in real life? And how do you know if you’re trusting correctly, or enough?
Posted on 5/10/25 at 11:10 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Being off the coast of Scotland, I’d say it might depend on if the one throwing you a line is a Calvinist and has to check if you’re on the elect list or not.
I laughed. At my peril. I married a Scots woman.
It’s interesting to note the 39 Articles, that all Anglicans once universally accepted and professed, have individual Articles relating to Free Will, the tenth, and Election, the seventeenth.
Now, they’ve been jettisoned by the mainline Anglicans in England, Scotland, Canada, America (Episcopalians), and I believe Australia.
The American Episcopal organization, no longer a Christian Church, yet modestly renaming itself The Episcopal Church, abandoned orthodox Christianity decades ago, relegating The 39 Articles to an appendix in the back of its 1979 Book of Common Prayer.
Only conservative, traditionalist, and orthodox Anglican Parishes, Provinces, or Denominations here and abroad accept them, and The Prayer Book of which they are a part, believing them to be faithful and authoritative statements of Christian doctrine and Catholic practices.
They’re decidedly Reformed.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:29 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Ok, so what does that look like in real life?
The criminal on the side of Jesus as He hung on the cross.
The man on the cross got real with who he was, as well as who Jesus was and understood that while he deserved the punishment, he also knew that Jesus did not, and believed that Jesus is exactly who he said he was, and asked Him to remember him when He came into His Kingdom to which Jesus assured him that he would be saved.
quote:
how do you know if you’re trusting correctly, or enough?
It’s more like an on/off switch than a dimmer. It all starts with scripture, as faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Throughout scripture we are told repeatedly the same message, believe upon Christ and you will be saved. There is no other name to be saved under, and it’s not something you have to earn, work for, or do except believe and rely upon Him only and His gift of salvation for you. Throw everything out except Him, and trust as a child does. Tell Him you do in prayer as well. It’s not some carefully worded prayer, just a heart to heart with you and Jesus telling Him you believe upon Him and are placing your full faith in Him only to save you, nothing else.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by Him.
You don’t have to understand everything, or have some deep in depth knowledge of everything to be saved. You just have to believe upon Him for your salvation. Just as a child trusts and believes, we are instructed to be likewise in believing upon and trusting Jesus for our salvation.
Whenever we start mixing things up with religion and complicating matters it becomes confusing, but the message and the relationship is simple. It is belief on Jesus only, and that is the actual Will of the Father for mankind, to believe upon Jesus.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 7:11 am to Mike da Tigah
I always go back to a preacher I heard one time discussing John Chapter 6. Jesus had just fed the multitude and the people asked him in 6:28, "what shall we do to do the works God requires." Jesus answered and said in verse 29, "In order to do the work God requires, a man must turn from his sins, he must be baptized and join a local church, he must give to the poor, receive communion and abstain from all manner of ungodliness. These are the things that God uses to determine if a man is good enough to enter his kingdom."
Actually it doesn't say that. I misspoke. Verse 29 in response to their question says "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he sent." That was a direct question with a direct answer.
The gospel is simple enough for a child to understand and believe. All debate about holy living and turning from sin are dealing with sanctification AFTER someone believes in him whom God sent. So you "repent", meaning you change your mind about who Jesus is. You go from believing nothing, or in your good behavior or whatever to believing that Jesus is who God sent to us to save us because we can't do it on our own. You repented/changed your mind about Jesus and who he is and what he came for, etc. Then after you believe, the holy life and turning from sin, etc. follows.
Actually it doesn't say that. I misspoke. Verse 29 in response to their question says "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he sent." That was a direct question with a direct answer.
The gospel is simple enough for a child to understand and believe. All debate about holy living and turning from sin are dealing with sanctification AFTER someone believes in him whom God sent. So you "repent", meaning you change your mind about who Jesus is. You go from believing nothing, or in your good behavior or whatever to believing that Jesus is who God sent to us to save us because we can't do it on our own. You repented/changed your mind about Jesus and who he is and what he came for, etc. Then after you believe, the holy life and turning from sin, etc. follows.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:28 am to Mike da Tigah
The thief on the cross only had moments to live.
Would you disagree that we need to repent and confess often?
Would you disagree that we need to repent and confess often?
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:45 am to Canon951
quote:Well sure, one must precede the other. But the question is, what does the holy life look like, and to what extent IS that “believing.”
Then after you believe, the holy life and turning from sin, etc. follows.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:45 am to bayoubengals88
I believe we have a 2 levels of our relationship with God. Union and Fellowship. Union with God is a one time event based on faith/belief alone in the one he sent, Jesus, whereas fellowship with God comes after union and is a lifetime process of confessing our sins to Jesus and trying to live a life worthy of what we've already been given. But once you have union with God, you are his forever.
quote:
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:50 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Would you disagree that we need to repent and confess often?
As saved believers, we absolutely do.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:52 am to Canon951
quote:
I believe we have a 2 levels of our relationship with God. Union and Fellowship. Union with God is a one time event based on faith/belief alone in the one he sent, Jesus, whereas fellowship with God comes after union and is a lifetime process of confessing our sins to Jesus and trying to live a life worthy of what we've already been given. But once you have union with God, you are his forever.
Amen, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 9:54 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Well sure, one must precede the other. But the question is, what does the holy life look like, and to what extent IS that “believing.”
Not sure exactly what your getting at. As you stated above, the thief had no chance to live a holy life, yet Christ said he would be with him in paradise that very day. Clearly, holy living wasn't a requirement for the thief to go to heaven because he had no chance to be holy and prove himself. However, Jesus said the law can be summed up in two commandments; love God with all your heart, mind soul, strenght, etc. and love your neighbor as yourself. If we do those things then I guess we can consider ourselves living a holy life. Problem is no one can do that perfectly so we have to have a savior who forgave us for all of our sins, past, present and future.
As far as believing, I personally believe it means to be persuaded that something is true. I am only speaking for myself but I believe that Jesus did it all. There is nothing in my flesh that can add to that but to trust him 100% that he will accept me when I die solely because I took him at his word. In the meantime, to thank him for this precious gift of eternal life, I will do my best to live a life worthy of that while I'm here on this earth. I may fall short from time to time but I have the confidence and faith that he will forgive me and never leave me or forsake me. That is what it means to me to believe. Thanks for asking.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 10:11 am to Canon951
Trusting in him to fulfill his promise…I like that. Participating in Christ then, is mostly for our benefit—our earthly salvation. I can get on board with that.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 10:38 am to bayoubengals88
Yes, so staying in fellowship in the here and now by "holy living" or whatever we want to call it is for the blessings we receive in this life. But belief is the sole requirement to go to heaven.
If my son does what I want him to do I bless him. If he doesn't then there are consequences. However he is my son regardless and I can never change that.
If my son does what I want him to do I bless him. If he doesn't then there are consequences. However he is my son regardless and I can never change that.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 10:45 am to Canon951
quote:The kind of belief that bears fruit? Would you go that far?
But belief is the sole requirement to go to heaven.
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