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re: The case against dark matter

Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:35 pm to
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

PBS runs this channel called Space Time that does a good job of building up an understanding. Here’s a playlist that goes through general relativity


As usual, I have to plug YouTube, too.

Damn, you can find anything there. The number of documentaries is astounding.
Posted by Pecker
Rocky Top
Member since May 2015
16674 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:37 pm to
I don’t understand this stuff enough to have an opinion either way.

Whether dark matter exists or not doesn’t affect my dream of one day owning a serval as a pet, so I’m good.

Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
38227 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:43 pm to
So here's what I don't get.

If gravity isn't pulling on matter within its "reach" and is simply distorting space time and objects are following that distorted spacetime "road," how exactly does escape velocity apply here? At a certain velocity does the spacetime distortion no longer have an effect on that matter?

ETA: And since you don't necessarily have to reach an escape velocity to actually escape a gravitational field, doesn't that mean that by achieving a certain energy state (whether that be through rocket propellant or a jump drive like in Sci Fi movies) that you're essentially creating an amount of mass due to Einstein's mass-energy equivalence (E = mc2) that is able to "counteract" the gravitational force of a large mass such as Earth?
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 9:59 pm
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29161 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:54 pm to
It’s not hat it doesn’t have an effect, it’s just the speed is fast enough to counter the falling (acceleration of gravity) towards the planet. Newton did a thought experiment with a cannon to illustrate: LINK




It’s important to remember there are two directions at play, one at the angle you are traveling and the other towards the center of mass you are escaping from.
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 9:56 pm
Posted by Lynyrd
Under the Tilt-a-Whirl
Member since Jun 2010
13173 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 9:56 pm to
What are your thoughts on this?
NASA link for newly discovered galaxy
Posted by sweetwaterbilly
Member since Mar 2017
19351 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:00 pm to
Why is this nerd shite on the OT? All of you afflicted heathens are going straight to hell for trying to understand the universe. It’s not meant to be understood.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29161 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:00 pm to
First thought was that they just got their observations wrong. If that’s not the case it’s one of those weird doors that opened that means there’s still tons out there we don’t understand, galaxy formation being one of them much less the ideathat they are missing a lot of something and we don’t have any idea what that something is.
Posted by Lynyrd
Under the Tilt-a-Whirl
Member since Jun 2010
13173 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:06 pm to
quote:

there are two directions at play, one at the angle you are traveling and the other towards the center of mass you are escaping from.

Yes. The closer you are to the "mass/gravity", the less chance you have to escape because of gravitation. To me, mass and metals, size, force, whatever is in power adjusts gravity. Gravity works like a washing machine....higher centrifigual force on the outside (higher speed and chance to escape).
Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
38227 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:08 pm to
quote:

it’s just the speed is fast enough to counter the falling (acceleration of gravity) towards the planet


Wouldn't that imply that gravity is quite literally pulling it towards the greater mass?

Is the idea that space time is being distorted and the idea that there is a gravitational field that pulls objects towards it contradictory?


ETA: What I'm saying is that I see Newton's Universal Gravitational theory as more correct than general relativity and that probably makes me a dumbass.
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 10:13 pm
Posted by Lynyrd
Under the Tilt-a-Whirl
Member since Jun 2010
13173 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:09 pm to
I don't think the observations were wrong. They look at all of the discoveries the same since dark matter. It didn't match up. Why?
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29161 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:17 pm to
quote:

Wouldn't that imply that gravity is quite literally pulling it towards the greater mass?

Is the idea that space time is being distorted and the idea that there is a gravitational field that pulls objects towards it contradictory?


Nah because again that would imply an actual thing reaching out from the center of mass of said objects and pulling it towards each other. Gravity is an effect, the warp of spacetime is the cause. Why spacetime is warped by mass is another story, I have no idea there.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29161 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:20 pm to
quote:

ETA: What I'm saying is that I see Newton's Universal Gravitational theory as more correct than general relativity and that probably makes me a dumbass.



Newton made models on what he saw happening but it never addressed the mechanics of "why" like Einstein did.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

Nah because again that would imply an actual thing reaching out from the center of mass of said objects and pulling it towards each other.


Gravitons were once said to be the carriers of the gravity force. Some scientists still hold to this idea.

quote:

Why spacetime is warped by mass is another story, I have no idea there.


As does no one else.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:26 pm to
quote:

Newton made models on what he saw happening but it never addressed the mechanics of "why" like Einstein did.


True. Newton's law states: The gravitational attraction force between two point masses is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of their separation distance. This simple description is still used to calculate the relationship between masses.

Einstein took the next step in defining gravity by relating it to spacetime and its effect on it.
Posted by Lynyrd
Under the Tilt-a-Whirl
Member since Jun 2010
13173 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:27 pm to
quote:

Nah because again that would imply an actual thing reaching out from the center of mass of said objects and pulling it towards each other.
There is an actual thing dummy. So you are not aware of our Earth's iron core (center of mass) that keeps things grounded. Roll a pencil across your desk. Why does it stop? Not because of your push. The answer is friction due too gravitational pull. You never took Physics?
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:29 pm to
Posted by S
RIP Wayde
Member since Jan 2007
155540 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:29 pm to
Dark matter matters.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
85025 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:32 pm to
quote:

never addressed the mechanics of "why" like Einstein did
Most of your posts are just BS but this one takes the cake. You are trying too hard with this.

I've studied quantum mechanics and general relativity and even worked directly with the physicist who developed the Brans-Dicke theory.

The method this guy is using won't work. He's basically saying he's going to create a theory on a guess from observing a single phenomenon and try to fit that theory into other observations instead of letting the observations dictate the theory. And he admits that what he's seeing could fall under "dark energy".

Meh.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29161 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:36 pm to
I mean I’m not arguing that the guy in the story is right
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
85025 posts
Posted on 5/7/18 at 10:42 pm to
I guess I just take issue with you saying something as wrong as Newton not trying to determine "why" two bodies are "attracted"... that was literally his life's work. If he had the tools and time, he would have reached the theory of relativity eventually which is mostly only a step beyond where Newton had taken us: light and energy itself.
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 10:46 pm
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