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re: Texas Bar To Pay $3M Bc Drunk Patron Killed 3 In Wreck
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:04 pm to NIH
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:04 pm to NIH
I mean how is this not malicious, lets assume he ordered every single drink himself and was plastered at the end, how is the bartender supposed to know he doesn't have a ride or uber waiting for him? If so, is the law that you are not allowed to get drunk period? Or is it that you're supposed to prove to the bartender whether you're driving or have a ride? Or should we just install those breathalyzers to start every car?
Im asking basically if you feel its against the law to get as drunk as you want at a bar bc thats what this boils down to. If Im not driving, am I allowed to get blackout drunk or is the bar supposed to just stop you either way at X amount of drinks? Im dabigfella, Im 6'7 should that drink limit that applies to a 5'5 man apply to me as well? Its a whole can of worms you're opening by making bars legally responsible for what people do when they leave the bar and its just silly
Im asking basically if you feel its against the law to get as drunk as you want at a bar bc thats what this boils down to. If Im not driving, am I allowed to get blackout drunk or is the bar supposed to just stop you either way at X amount of drinks? Im dabigfella, Im 6'7 should that drink limit that applies to a 5'5 man apply to me as well? Its a whole can of worms you're opening by making bars legally responsible for what people do when they leave the bar and its just silly
1
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:04 pm to jmarto1
quote:
This one certainly is
So if your wife or mother was killed by a drunk driver who was served in a bar, in a state that has laws prohibiting serving intoxicated patrons, you'd just chalk it up to bad luck?
Cool.
Everyone wants tort reform until they're affected.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:06 pm to jmarto1
quote:
This one certainly is
The only part of this lawsuit that bothers me is the fact that the family of the guy who was at the bar with him the whole time was the original plaintiff. That is only a step removed from the driver suing the bar.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:08 pm to slackster
quote:
slackster
I have another hypothetical for you. What if in this exact same case, the bartender did in fact cut him off? And he then goes out and still kills somebody? Is the bar culpable still?
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:09 pm to dabigfella
quote:
how is the bartender supposed to know he doesn't have a ride or uber waiting for him?
That is part of the responsibility of the bar and bartender. They understand that when the apply for their alcohol license.
quote:
Or is it that you're supposed to prove to the bartender whether you're driving or have a ride?
There are plenty of drinking related accidents and I doubt they all end up with multi-million dollar settlements. I'd imagine there are ways to protect yourself, ways that this bar obviously did not do.
They could have taken this to court if they had a good case. $3MM tells me they didn't have a good case.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:10 pm to GaryMyMan
quote:
So if your wife or mother was killed by a drunk driver who was served in a bar, in a state that has laws prohibiting serving intoxicated patrons, you'd just chalk it up to bad luck?
Cool.
Everyone wants tort reform until they're affected.
Im with you, I think drunk driving is awful and I hope nobody I know is ever affected but Im saying how can a business be liable when it was basically a rogue employee who did it. The bar owner could fire every single employee and tend the bar himself and make sure everyone leaves sober, that would also mean he gets no business bc if a bar ever told me they were done serving me that would be the last night I pull in there. So what would you do to remedy such a situation then? Is there anything short of breathalyzers in every car tied to the ignition?
Again the question is are you legally allowed to get drunk even if you have a ride home? Because at that point the bar doesn't know if you have a ride or not, so who are they to say how "drunk" you can get
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:10 pm to SouthEndzoneTiger
quote:
I have another hypothetical for you. What if in this exact same case, the bartender did in fact cut him off? And he then goes out and still kills somebody? Is the bar culpable still?
I'm not sure. Are you suggesting he cut him off at the exact moment he left? I don't know if that would matter, but I'd imagine it would help their case, however insignificantly.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:12 pm to dabigfella
quote:
Again the question is are you legally allowed to get drunk even if you have a ride home? Because at that point the bar doesn't know if you have a ride or not, so who are they to say how "drunk" you can get
Getting drunk can be a crime in and of itself.
quote:
Under Texas law, people commit the misdemeanor crime of public intoxication if they appear in a public place while intoxicated to a degree that they may endanger themselves or another person.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:13 pm to jmarto1
quote:
This one certainly is
The opposing legal team didn't think so, to the tune of three million.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:13 pm to slackster
quote:
Under Texas law, people commit the misdemeanor crime of public intoxication if they appear in a public place while intoxicated to a degree that they may endanger themselves or another person.
and in this case, it's the bar's fault again?
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:13 pm to slackster
quote:
That is only a step removed from the driver suing the bar.
I'm surprised he didn't join in.
For them to settle there was probably fairly convincing video or witness evidence that the bartender(s) were encouraging the guys to keep on drinking even after they were visibly hammered. I'm no lawyer, but it would be hard to prove something as subjective as, ""obviously intoxicated to the extent that he presented a clear danger to himself and others,"
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:14 pm to slackster
slackster, throw this case out and lets assume this guy had 30 drinks and thats it. Let's discuss a hypothetical whats your take if say a small woman lets say 5'2 drinks 4 drinks and isnt visibly drunk when she leaves, but is drunk and she goes out and kills someone and we find out her BAC is too high and she was legally drunk......is the bar responsible for giving out just a few drinks if it wasn't excessive but it was still enough to get her shitefaced but not till later, lets assume she has a 1 hour drive home and it hits her on the way.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:14 pm to slackster
quote:
I'm not sure. Are you suggesting he cut him off at the exact moment he left? I don't know if that would matter, but I'd imagine it would help their case, however insignificantly.
Yeah, I meant at the exact moment he left. Which raises another potential flaw in this law. I would argue that if a person starts presenting signs of being too drunk, it's already too late. They have already been allowed to get to a position of harming themselves or others. You would actually have to cut them off before they start presenting signs of being overly drunk. Pretty tough to do, I think.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:14 pm to GaryMyMan
quote:
Everyone wants tort reform until they're affected.
yep. and one of the first things people want to do when they're wronged is get on the OT and ask if they have a case.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:16 pm to dabigfella
quote:
slackster, throw this case out and lets assume this guy had 30 drinks and thats it. Let's discuss a hypothetical whats your take if say a small woman lets say 5'2 drinks 4 drinks and isnt visibly drunk when she leaves, but is drunk and she goes out and kills someone and we find out her BAC is too high and she was legally drunk......is the bar responsible for giving out just a few drinks if it wasn't excessive but it was still enough to get her shitefaced but not till later, lets assume she has a 1 hour drive home and it hits her on the way.
=/=
quote:
According to Texas' Alcoholic Beverage Code, bars are open to lawsuit if they serve someone alcohol who is "obviously intoxicated to the extent that he presented a clear danger to himself and others," and the drinker goes on to cause damage, personal injury or death while intoxicated.
there is your answer
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:16 pm to dabigfella
You have to go all the way back to the 80's to find a judge that held a restaurant or bar liable.*
edit: *in Louisiana
I wanted to get liquor liability insurance for my restaurant and my agent told me just get a 100k policy for a lawyer because all cases are throw out unless complete and utter negligence is shown by the establishment.
This was probably the case here, like feeding a guys free shots after he can barely stand.
edit: *in Louisiana
I wanted to get liquor liability insurance for my restaurant and my agent told me just get a 100k policy for a lawyer because all cases are throw out unless complete and utter negligence is shown by the establishment.
This was probably the case here, like feeding a guys free shots after he can barely stand.
This post was edited on 11/14/16 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:19 pm to GaryMyMan
By your words, everyone should be cut off at a bar of . 08%?
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:19 pm to GeauxTigers80
fair enough, if thats the case then Im fine with the penalty. We really have no details on the matter and Id like to assume that nobody would be just pouring drinks down the mouth of a visibly drunk guy and then letting him go out and drive but who the hell knows these days, its completely possible and obviously the settlement was big enough that there was proof.
Again I guess what upsets me is this business, the owner was probably at home and it was a rogue employee, I just hate seeing business owners get this kind of treatment when it was employees who were at fault. As a business owner, this is the kind of stuff I hate stressing over.
Again I guess what upsets me is this business, the owner was probably at home and it was a rogue employee, I just hate seeing business owners get this kind of treatment when it was employees who were at fault. As a business owner, this is the kind of stuff I hate stressing over.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:20 pm to dabigfella
quote:
Let's discuss a hypothetical whats your take if say a small woman lets say 5'2 drinks 4 drinks and isnt visibly drunk when she leaves, but is drunk and she goes out and kills someone and we find out her BAC is too high and she was legally drunk......is the bar responsible for giving out just a few drinks if it wasn't excessive but it was still enough to get her shitefaced but not till later, lets assume she has a 1 hour drive home and it hits her on the way.
I'd imagine all of those are mitigating circumstances that help the bar's case.
I don't think this is as outlandish as you think it is. As I said earlier, these things happen here or there, but not nearly as often as alcohol-related accidents, so clearly there is a threshold that most establishments are meeting in these events.
Posted on 11/14/16 at 1:20 pm to dabigfella
quote:
As a business owner, this is the kind of stuff I hate stressing over.
yep, it sucks. it's nearly the same worry as meat head bouncers who may put some poor sap in ICU.
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