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Started By
Message
re: Student Loan Extended (Again)!
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:32 am to AMS
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:32 am to AMS
quote:
its taxpayer money. not that hard. 'pay for your own education', 'muh handouts'
Again, we are talking about contracts, not funding sources.
With TOPS, everyone has the same deal. In student loans, people that signed the same exact contract may be treated differently based strictly on financial management. Hence the divide on the topic.
Trying to conflate scholarships with retrospective student loan forgiveness because they both came from taxpayer money is either disingenuous or ignorant.
2
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:35 am to OceanMan
As the other poster who replied to you noted, you appear to be working from a false premise. Student loan “contracts” are full of soft language regarding the possibility of future modification, especially as it pertains to repayment terms, forgiveness, etc. Comparing them to car loan or mortgage contracts is apples to oranges. Though now that I’m saying it, it would be really cool if someone came along and added repayment options to my mortgage along the lines of REPAYE/PAYE/IBR/IDR/etc 
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:37 am to OceanMan
quote:
In student loans, people that signed the same exact contract may be treated differently based strictly on financial management. Hence the divide on the topic.
But it’s always been that way. Modifying forgiveness is simply riffing on the overarching theme, not adding a new concept.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:37 am to AMS
quote:
I see your problem is that you just dont know much about student loans, because you keep spouting nonsense about not fulfilling the contract... but potential leniency is specifically a benefit of federal loans over private loans and IS included in the contract for taking out student loans from the government. you are working from a false premise.
Please provide the language in the contract that provides a blanket forgiveness for all borrowers under the program.
Most contracts have cancellation clauses, please provide the language in your contract that you believe warrants cancellation
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:42 am to Joshjrn
quote:
But it’s always been that way. Modifying forgiveness is simply riffing on the overarching theme, not adding a new concept.
Yeah I think I’m done reading rationalizations. This is a simple concept that is being twisted and ignored because of personal financial gain.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:44 am to OceanMan
quote:
Trying to conflate scholarships with retrospective student loan forgiveness because they both came from taxpayer money is either disingenuous or ignorant.
the fact is that its not retrospective forgiveness because that possibility for forgiveness was included in the student loan contract. your argument that it isnt is disingenuous or ignorant.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:46 am to OceanMan
quote:
Yeah I think I’m done reading rationalizations. This is a simple concept that is being twisted and ignored because of personal financial gain.
When I graduated, REPAYE didn’t exist. It was added as an option later, with its own forgiveness criteria. You understand that there are already like a half dozen different ways, from public interest forgiveness after ten years to REPAYE after 20-25 years to something else I can’t remember that takes 30?
These already exist. Some have existed for longer than others. All of them apply to everyone, regardless of whether they took out the loan before or after those changes were made. I simply fail to see how another modification to the forgiveness regime is fundamentally different than any previous that has been made.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:49 am to BOZ4LSU
I'm not sure how people cannot see that all we accomplish by subsidizing student loans is ensuring that tuition continues to exponentially increase. There is no incentive structure for colleges to do otherwise if we basically streamline government backed money gets to them with zero risk.
If it is so immoral to expect people to pay back money they borrowed to the point where we end up forgiving all the ones already administered, you better never give out another student loan.
The only way I see this story ending is people being priced out of college degrees because free college will not be a burden the taxpayer is willing to shoulder and businesses moving towards accepting certifications for certain skillsets instead.
If it is so immoral to expect people to pay back money they borrowed to the point where we end up forgiving all the ones already administered, you better never give out another student loan.
The only way I see this story ending is people being priced out of college degrees because free college will not be a burden the taxpayer is willing to shoulder and businesses moving towards accepting certifications for certain skillsets instead.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 11:56 am
Posted on 4/7/22 at 11:50 am to Joshjrn
quote:
As the other poster who replied to you noted, you appear to be working from a false premise. Student loan “contracts”
Yeah I’m done. I’ve read them myself, and they are contracts, there is no subjectivity.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:01 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Yeah I’m done. I’ve read them myself, and they are contracts, there is no subjectivity.
Well done ignoring the rest of that post as well as my next one. Hope you enjoyed knocking over that big scary strawman
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:02 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
These already exist. Some have existed for longer than others. All of them apply to everyone, regardless of whether they took out the loan before or after those changes were made. I simply fail to see how another modification to the forgiveness regime is fundamentally different than any previous that has been made.
The modifications are modifications not cancellations. The difference is in the trillions($)
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:06 pm to OceanMan
quote:
The modifications are modifications not cancellations. The difference is in the trillions($)
Except that they are modifications to the forgiveness regime that results in the cancellation of loans. That’s the point.
And while the cost of some modifications of that regime would cost more than others, that’s not a fundamental difference in line with the contractual argument you’re attempting to make.
In short, if the government has the ability to come back and say “actually, here’s this new thing called REPAYE, and if you pay your existing loans under those terms for twenty years, we will cancel the balance of that loan”, it can say that it will cancel loans after ten years, or five years, or one year, or tomorrow. They aren’t fundamentally different; it’s simply a matter of degrees on a continuum.
Now, that’s to say nothing of the wisdom behind any of this. But the arguments that it can’t/shouldn’t be done out of some contract based moral imperative simply don’t have a leg to stand on, in my opinion.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:09 pm to Ross
That was said earlier in the thread and its largely ignored. You are 100% correct and the arguments being had dont ever touch on this.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:27 pm to John_V
quote:
I for one don't think it should be forgiven tbh, but I do think they need to rework the Loans that are drowning in interest. If someone has paid $40k on their original $40k Student Loan from 5 years ago then consider it paid off.
The fact that people are paying off the original loan amount halfway thru a payment plan with no way out besides the Lottery or Death is absurd.
Why? Borrowers agreed to those rates and agreed to those terms. College students are high-risk borrowers with no collateral. That's why rates are high on student loans. Should we rework credit card debt for people drowning in interest? They took on that debt at those rates.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:30 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Except that they are modifications to the forgiveness regime
quote:
REPAYE,
It might be spelled a little weird, but it says repay. It modified the “repayment” section. Not the default section. Terms of the contract that require some level of performance on the borrowers end.
quote:
Now, that’s to say nothing of the wisdom behind any of this. But the arguments that it can’t/shouldn’t be done out of some contract based moral imperative simply don’t have a leg to stand on, in my opinion.
The argument is that active lobbying by borrowers to have their contracts cancelled will come at the expense of those that already performed under their contracts.
You are the one fabricating this bullshite that what you signed may or may not be considered a contract to detract from that argument. I shouldn’t be in these weeds, it’s my fault that I am, but it’s not a moral position. What you signed is a contract.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 12:32 pm to John_V
quote:
Bash all you want but PPP loans and Student Loan Forgiveness both have the same goal, to stimulate the economy and prevent people from being in financial hardships. Saying that businesses with two employees deserve $100k+ in PPP "Loans" forgiven but Bobby needs to pay his $50k Federal loan at an 8% Interest rate cause he wants to be a Teacher is absurd... "Business" owners would b*tch and moan if Biden had y'all pay those loans back at 0% let alone 8% like Federal Student Loans, but one is beneficial to older adults and the other isn't. That's the difference.
the loan repayment moratorium is bobby's opportunity to pay back debt at zero percent interest and reduce principal, which will in turn reduce interest over the long term.
borrowers should be thinking less "hooray we don't have to pay anymore" and more "hooray I can make a huge dent in this debt by paying down principal".
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:03 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Please provide the language in the contract that provides a blanket forgiveness for all borrowers under the program.
Most contracts have cancellation clauses, please provide the language in your contract that you believe warrants cancellation
easy to do for the general MPN and HEA which applies to all federal student loan borrowers.
quote:
PERIODS WHEN WE CHARGE INTEREST (BRR Item 8)
Generally, we do not charge interest on Direct Subsidized Loans while you are
enrolled at an eligible school on at least a half-time basis, during your 6-month
grace period, during deferment periods, or during certain periods of repayment
under certain repayment plans that base your monthly payment amount on your
income.
quote:
Unless we notify you in writing that a different rate will apply,
gov made this a deferment period and notified in writing that a different rate of 0 will apply.
quote:
To request a forbearance, contact your servicer.
Under certain circumstances, we may also give you a forbearance without
requiring you to submit a request or documentation (for example, while we
are determining your eligibility for a loan discharge, or during periods when
you are affected by a local or national emergency).
covid was determined national emergency. those were just examples, they did not set rigid conditions and left room for voluntarily granting forbearance or deferment.
HEA also applies to all contracts, which includes this clause regarding general legal powers...
quote:
(6) enforce, pay, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand,
however acquired, including any equity or any
right of redemption.
the contract 100% includes entirely voluntary blanket clauses to negate payments and/or debts for all borrowers. so enough nonsense about not fulfilling contracts, which is devoid of factual basis.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:06 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Yeah I’m done. I’ve read them myself, and they are contracts, there is no subjectivity.
you certainly haven't
because as you said, there is no subjectivity... if you had read through the contracts you would have seen clauses included for forgiveness and deferment.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 1:19 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
borrowers should be thinking less "hooray we don't have to pay anymore" and more "hooray I can make a huge dent in this debt by paying down principal".
meh this blanket advice does not apply to all borrowers. Some do not get the benefit of full expected salary immediately following graduation. take a newly graduated physician with 250k debt, and a residents salary of ~52k. they probably couldn't even tackle the interest accrued during med school in this time, and they would be morons to try chipping at their debt now if in a year or two their pay increases 5x. lawyers trying to make partner expecting near future pay raises etc.
there are current students who can't tackle interest accrual during this time, and jobs were shut down preventing that potential as well.
you do have a point for borrowers who graduated less recently who have been able to actualize their expected income potential.
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