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re: STEAM vs STEM Education

Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:08 pm to
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40037 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

It is like history, should mostly be learned through self-discovery because your opinion of it determines what you think about it.



No way. History as a discipline has a very distinct methodology that most people don't understand, nor care to understand. That methodology is valuable and should be taught.
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:12 pm to
quote:


No way. History as a discipline has a very distinct methodology that most people don't understand, nor care to understand. That methodology is valuable and should be taught.



You are probably correct and I am probably ignorant about it but that is not the way it is taught and not the way it will be taught.

History teaching is a lot easier to bend to opinion than something like chemistry.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:17 pm to
In general because the deeper you delve into history, the more subjective and theoretical it becomes.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40037 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

You are probably correct and I am probably ignorant about it but that is not the way it is taught and not the way it will be taught.

History teaching is a lot easier to bend to opinion than something like chemistry.




History teaching and actually documenting history are two different things. The people documenting history have done a poor job of explaining why views of historical figures change. For example, in the case of Columbus, his historical perception changed once a testimony compiled by the next governor of Santo Domingo, Francisco de Bobadilla, was unearthed in Spain in the early noughties. It was that document, which had testimonies of 31 people involved in the colonial administration of Santo Domingo, which accused Columbus of various crimes. The testimonies are valuable primary sources, and primary sources are unearthed all the time. There are numerous examples of a previous paradigm being upended, but people are more resistant to that paradigm being upended than similar changes in paradigm in science, for example.

Our historical education at the primary and secondary level is extremely poor, as kids get taught facts rather than the process of how facts are made, if that makes sense.
Posted by GI Jerm
D.C.
Member since Apr 2010
183 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:24 pm to
One of these is a hobby, not a viable career path.

Though I would also argue that most STEM fields are arts in their own respect as far as the creativity and outside-the-box thinking that’s required to be above par.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

like web development and digital media
sounds like technology to me
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40037 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

In general because the deeper you delve into history, the more subjective and theoretical it becomes.



I don't know if this is true. Most of the conversation at the graduate level in history concerns itself with primary sources, or secondary commentaries on primary sources, and whether we can trust those secondary sources. For example, in Indian history, the British commentators of India assumed the practice of "sati," or the burning of Hindu widows, was widespread. Later Indian historians challenged that assertion by providing evidence that it was limited in both time-period and scope. Sati actually doubled in practice after the British arrived. None of this is subjective or theoretical. It requires deep knowledge with the primary source documentation and deep familiarity with the secondary source documentation, or the tradition of it. Most often things become fact based on the initial commentaries of primary sources, which were often based on much less rigorous practices, if not outright bias. For some reason, there is lots of resistance to any revisionism, even though most revisionists are much more well-sourced than the original secondary commentaries.
This post was edited on 12/8/18 at 1:38 pm
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

You are more right than you know. There is plenty of need for artists in the entertainment industry, from movies to video games to music. Lots of that training can be done at specific art institutes, but it's also clearly in the purview of traditional institutions as well.


Art is present and important in most of the things we use everyday. Can you imagine what a car would be like if designed by engineers with no effort to combine style into functionality. Art can also manifest itself into ergonomics, things that look pleasing to the eye are often work better in terms of usability.
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51408 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:34 pm to
STREAM now. Catch up.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40037 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:37 pm to
I know in the game industry in Seattle, what they are struggling with is finding enough artists, as there are enough software engineers to depress the pay significantly.

Frankly, what separates American civilization from the rest of the world is our free-thinking. People are acting as though there is some glut of artists. There are comparatively few artists in comparison to STEM majors. The few that major in it are usually fantastically talented. I know a couple of guys from LSU who've had art shows in Paris and Berlin. Maybe people have the impression of a starving artist or something, but that impression was invented in the fin de siecle period of France, from the 1880's to WWI, and somehow has become a popular perception in America, when that isn't the case. Lots of postwar art had a lot to do with the New Deal, as many artists were commissioned to paint murals, including some at LSU, of which are of the highest quality. Many of these artists went on to fame in the 1950's.

The entertainment industry produces quite a lot of wealth as well, in addition to producing things that become emblematic of the culture. People are acting as though we are in a collapsed society. We aren't. We are in a very rich society that just uses its resources somewhat poorly.
Posted by Hog Zealot
On the Flats
Member since Mar 2012
1805 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 1:48 pm to
If the A doesn’t stand for Algorithms then our country doesn’t have a very bright future.

IT and mainly security is way to dependent upon importing employees with H1B visas to get a job done or provide daily support at companies.

Coders, engineers, analysts, app developers etc. are bigly needed. I think it’s a revolution that could save American who are losing jobs to automation and outsourcing.

I know for a fact many companies don’t want to do the visa route and would like to hire citizens. Problem is there just isn’t much talent available. Meanwhile over in India or the Middle East it’s their ticket out.
Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 2:05 pm to
The Louisiana School for Math, Science, and the Arts was founded in 1983. It has always had the Arts included and students have always been required to take a core number of math, science, humanities, and arts classes to ensure that every student gets exposed to all of them during their educations, no matter what they chose to focus most of their studies on. The idea that the Arts are an important part of a well-rounded education is not new.
This post was edited on 12/8/18 at 2:20 pm
Posted by Bmath
LA
Member since Aug 2010
18919 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

No it doesn't. Art is good for passion. But it should be stripped from public funded education.

Closest thing to art that I can justify spending taxpayer dollars on is courses on architecture.


With society’s dependence upon media, graphic design is extremely important.

With regards to the OP, STREAM often tries to teach STEM through art and vice versa.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
106028 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

Art has a place in a well rounded education. Life isn't solely about making money.





This post has 13 downvotes. Never change,OT.
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
52805 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 3:22 pm to
Money has afforded me a lot of art. Just purchased the Garth Brooks anthology actually
Posted by chryso
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
13965 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 4:09 pm to
They're worried about running out of barristas.
Posted by PiscesTiger
Concrete, WA
Member since Feb 2004
53696 posts
Posted on 12/8/18 at 4:34 pm to
It's all bullshite.
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