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re: Statistics Spinoff Thread: How much would you pay to play this "game of chance"
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:09 pm to slackster
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:09 pm to slackster
quote:So what is the EV of the first flip?
You have a 50% chance of getting $0 on the first flip now.
You also have a 50% chance of getting $4
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:12 pm to PearlJam
quote:
If I flip heads on the first flip I win $2.
No. If you flip heads on the first flip you win nothing yet. The pot has grown, however.
The game is how many heads you can flip before you flip a tails.
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:14 pm to slackster
quote:I am, at all times, guaranteed the $ in the pot. So once I flip heads, I have won that $.
If you flip heads on the first flip you win nothing yet. The pot has grown
Flipping tails doesn't win the $, it ends the game.
By playing, I'm guaranteed the $2 pot. To say my expected value on the first flip is .5 of $2 doesn't make sense.
This post was edited on 1/15/16 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:16 pm to PearlJam
quote:
If I flip heads on the first flip I win $2.
You don't win anything until you flip a tails.
quote:
With the ops question on the first flip I have 2 outcomes- Get $2 or get more than $2
Not exactly. You either win $2 or flip again. That is the problem. The game can go on forever. That is why the expected payout is always infinite, no matter where you are in the game.
If we set a limit (5 flips, 10, 20, 100, whatever), we can get actual solutions with real numbers (i.e. not infinity).
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:18 pm to Speedy G
quote:This is the difference between a mathematical equation and gambling. Based on the rules of the game I get the pot. Whatever is in it, I have won.
You don't win anything until you flip a tails.
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:20 pm to PearlJam
quote:
So what is the EV of the first flip?
I think we're going in circles here. You can look at the EV of the first flip two ways.
1) EV is infinity since you have a 50% of winning nothing (assuming your rule of $0 if you flip tails to start) and a 50% chance of winning $4 or more - which can be expressed as a 25% chance of winning exactly $4, a 12.5% chance of winning exactly $8, a 6.25% chance of winning exactly $16... all the way to infinity. Those only equal $1 each, but they add up forever, so the sum is infinite. You have a 50% chance of winning $0 and a 50% chance of winning infinite dollars - the answer is still infinite
2) The value of winning the pot - flipping a tails on the first flip - is 50% times the pot of $0 due to your added rule. The value of that outcome is $0.
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:21 pm to slackster
quote:we are. A little intentionally on my part.
I think we're going in circles here.
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:24 pm to PearlJam
quote:
This is the difference between a mathematical equation and gambling. Based on the rules of the game I get the pot. Whatever is in it, I have won.
Sure, but gambling or mathematically, you don't get the pot until you flip a tails. It sounds contradictory, because you'd think you want to flip heads for as long as possible, but you don't win the pot until you flip a tails.
You have similar odds to win the Powerball as you do to flipping heads 27 times in a row in this game, but you don't win any money until you flip that tails on the 28th flip.
Posted on 1/15/16 at 4:41 pm to Speedy G
quote:
Mathematically, the problem is that the payouts and probabilities and growing/shrinking in proportion to one another, so there is no convergence. With no convergence, there is not limit, and thus no real answer.
Correct. The series to calculate the expected payout per player does not converge so we can't figure this out.
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