re: Spinoff: What would Europe and the world be like today if the Nazis won?

Probably not a horrible place if you are white without a drop of jewish or gypsy blood going back 10 generations.

Would be very technologically advanced, probably more so than we are now, as Nazis spent so much on innovation. (The US did too) the the Cold war would likely have been between the US and the Third Reich. Likely many US cities would have been destroyed. A US defeat in WW2 means they got the bomb first.

I think Phillip K Dick had a great idea when he partitioned the US like we partitioned Germany. In his vision the former United States was no longer a power or even a nation. Japan and Germany are entering a cold war and the US is a fricked up place to live for most.

Turtledove who is the master of alternative history, had a book in which eventually we see decent Nazis and even sympathetic Nazis. (In the Presence of Mine Enemies)
In that book it's set in a word where the US and Canada stayed out of WW2, but lost WW3 against Germany/Russia/Japan/most of the world.


So many possibilities. I do think that there would be almost no Jewish people, Gypsy people, and possibly they would seek to exterminate Africans as well. Hispanics and Middle Easterners and Asians were seen as a "lower class" of human but not an Untermensch.

Here's my best guess.....


Europe
1. From the northern half of France all the way through the Ukraine to the Urals would be part of the Greater German Reich. Berlin would have by now been transformed into the new capital city and renamed "Germania". Germany is now the world's main super power with only the US being even close to a threat. Within 20 years after the end of WWII, Greater Germany has the world's biggest economy and has built itself an air force and navy capable of projecting it's power anywhere around the world. Germany is the first to develop intercontinental ballistic missiles and probably is the first to both get a man in space and to the moon. In short, everything the US was in the second half of the 20th Century, now it's Germany doing most of those thing.

2. Scandinavia would still be independent to a degree. Sweden would be forced to sign an alliance with Germany, Finland was already an ally, Norway would have a puppet Nazi government.

3. The southern half of France would remain technically independent but still for all intents and purposes a German puppet.

4. Italy would possess it's own Southern European/North African Empire but sill very much be a junior partner to Germany.

5. Hungary & Romania would be German puppets.

6. I think the UK would remain independent, although they will have been forced to sign some sort on non-aggression pact with Germany and possibly move their fleet to Canada or maybe even lose most of their fleet in "arms reductions". Most, maybe even all, of the British Empire would be independent as a defeated Britain would not be able to maintain a hold on their Empire.

7. There would still be some form of Russia, at least on the east side of the Urals. It's possible there would for years after the end of the war be some sort of guerilla warfare going on in this part of the world. Other than perhaps sub-Sahara Africa, this will be the worst place on the planet to try and live. Privation, poverty, misery and suffering would be the norm here.

Middle East
1. Turkey allies itself to Germany. It's possible a fascist style government emerges here.

2. The areas of Palestine (as it was known then) Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan would be controlled by Sunni Arab Fascists (similar to the Ba'ath Party). They may even be united into one country. It's possible they'd even overrun all of Saudi Arabia as well.

3. Shiite Persia would find itself and facing a hostile neighbor(s) on it's western border. I think there would be an eventual war between them and the Sunni Arabs over control of Iraq. Along with this war would come a holocaust similar to the one Germany did in Europe to the Jews with the Sunnis marching Shiites to extermination camps.

Africa
1. Egypt would be an ally of Germany & Italy with it's own Fascist style government.

2. The rest of north Africa along with the Ethiopia and the horn of Africa would be Italian colonies.

3. Sub-Sharia Africa would be pretty much what it's been for centuries, a giant, steaming pile of shite.

4. South Africa would for a time try to go it on their own but eventually the Europeans would lose power and probably emigrate back to the UK or perhaps Canada.


Far East & South East Asia
1. Japan emerges as the dominate super power in the Far East. On mainland Asia, Japan controls virtually all of China along the coast and even into the heartland of China. Japan also has a puppet regime in control of Manchuria. Japan likewise holds all of Korea, Indochina, Burma, Thailand (either directly or through puppet regimes). In the Pacific Japan controls the Dutch East Indies directly and the Philippines through a Puppet regime.

2. Inland China would be a no-mans land fighting a seemingly endless Civil War between the Communists and Nationalist. The Japanese for their part would be content to let these two sides keep each other busy.

3. India would gain independence from Great Britain and then devolve into it's own civil war between Islamic and Hindu factions.

Pacific Islands
1. Australia is isolated and reduced to being a virtual puppet of Japan. Same is true for equally isolated New Zealand.

2. Japan controls most of both Micronesia and Polynesia with naval and air bases set at key points to give them control over the central Pacific.

3. Hawaii and Midway are more than likely still US possessions, although the US has been forced to demilitarize both. There is a chance the US is forced to grant Hawaii it's "independence" and it becomes a Japanese puppet.

South & Central America
1. Argentina and Chile both become Fascist countries. They both become involved in wars of conquest with their northern neighbors.

2. Central America sees a bloodbath between Fascist and Communist guerilla movements. Due to the weakness of worldwide communism following the Soviet's defeat at the hands of Germany, the Fascists in Central America gain the upper hand and take control. This could lead to possible US intervention in the region which in turn could lead to further conflict between the US and Germany. It's possible the US could fight a Vietnam style war somewhere in Central America to try and stop the spread of Fascism.

North America
1. Mexico seeks closer ties to the US in hopes of staving off the spread of Fascist movements from it's South.

2. Canada probably still has some sort of ties to the UK. It's even possible the Royal Family and Royal Navy both seek safe haven in Canada. Along with Mexico, Canada joins the US in forming a North America Alliance aimed at defending the continent from the encroachment of Fascism.

3. The US has lost most, maybe all, of it's Pacific holdings. The US still has a massive military power though thanks to the fact it's virtually self sustainable from a resources standpoint and at the end of WWII neither Japan or Germany could yet launch an invasion of the US mainland. Basically the US is leading a global Cold War against Germany in Europe and Japan in the Pacific. The only difference is NATO now stands for North American Treaty Organization.


Anyway, that's my best guess on what the world would look like within 20-30 years of the end of WWII had the Axis instead of the Allies won.

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