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re: Should these college students be charged with murder?
Posted on 12/4/14 at 11:55 pm to buckeye_vol
Posted on 12/4/14 at 11:55 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
The widespread use and long history should not outweigh and/or justify its irrationality.
Lol...I like how people use that as an excuse.
Just because something has happened for some time doesn't make it right or logical....
Why was slavery frowned upon, I mean it was going on for 100+ years....right?
I don't have much sympathy for them but they should be charged with the crimes they committed not some bullshite murder charge...only way they should be charged with murder if they have proof they forcibly made that guy enter that house.
1
Posted on 12/4/14 at 11:57 pm to JordonfortheJ
If i take an action that causes the death of another person, isn't that usually manslaughter ? I may be completely wrong.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:00 am to Flame Salamander
quote:Everything you say in this thread from here on out carries no weight. You have no clue what the law is.
For a murder conviction you have to have some kind of motive and intent to kill.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:02 am to blue_morrison
The majority approach in jurisdictions is the agency approach which only imputes liability for acts of co-felons to other co-felons and not innocent parties to the felons. The idea is that in a felony the co-felons are "in this together" basically, so they are responsible for each other's acts and their mens rea's are imputed to each other. You can't impute a culpable mens rea of a justified killing and since it was an innocent actor, the other felons shouldn't be responsible. That's the line of thinking.
The proximate cause theory is the minority and says the felons are responsible for any killing, justified or not, that they "cause" will be imputed on them. The rationale is that the felons should be responsible for their actions and whatever consequences. Sounds like this is what Alabama has.
I see it both ways. I'm all for being responsible for your actions, but how can you be guilty of murder when the act was justified and there wasn't any malice? It sidesteps the idea of actus reus and mens rea completely.
The proximate cause theory is the minority and says the felons are responsible for any killing, justified or not, that they "cause" will be imputed on them. The rationale is that the felons should be responsible for their actions and whatever consequences. Sounds like this is what Alabama has.
I see it both ways. I'm all for being responsible for your actions, but how can you be guilty of murder when the act was justified and there wasn't any malice? It sidesteps the idea of actus reus and mens rea completely.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 12:03 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:04 am to Funky Tide 8
This bothers me for reasons I can't quite put my finger on... but only in the sense of understanding the logic behind it. I have no special problem with the end result. It just seems weird to charge them with murder. But again, I'm not bothered by it anymore than I'm bothered with other aspects of criminal justice.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:05 am to liz18lsu
quote:
If i take an action that causes the death of another person, isn't that usually manslaughter ? I may be completely wrong.
I see what you're saying and normally yes, but a killing in the commission of a felony is 1st degree murder with certain limitations.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 2:09 am to Funky Tide 8
It may be a stupid law, but it is the law, so it's hard to argue against the charge. There probably should be some element of intent of violence like if they had a weapon or something to add the murder charge.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 4:30 am to ZereauxSum
quote:
Why would anyone know or care what felony murder is unless they worked in or were a part of the criminal justice system?
Seriously? Do you read or live or anything?
Florida might have the worst of these type laws. Kid in my home town was asked to give his buddies friends a ride. He did, and they said they'd call him when they needed to be scooped back up. Kid said ok, sure.
They beat a homeless man to death. The kid who gave them a ride is currently rotting in jail.
Laws like this are beyond fricked up
Posted on 12/5/14 at 6:42 am to ReauxlTide222
But they're impossible to change because those that try are labeled "soft on crime" and end up losing the next election. The US is the most illogical developed country in the world.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 7:05 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Kid in my home town was asked to give his buddies friends a ride. He did, and they said they'd call him when they needed to be scooped back up. Kid said ok, sure.
They beat a homeless man to death. The kid who gave them a ride is currently rotting in jail.
So you know someone who was in the system.
Again, how would you know this and why would you care if you didn't know this guy or read/watch the horror show that is local news?
Posted on 12/5/14 at 8:46 am to Guess
quote:
It may be a stupid law, but it is the law, so it's hard to argue against the charge.
So just because its a law, that makes it automatically right?
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:54 pm to ZereauxSum
quote:
Again, how would you know this and why would you care if you didn't know this guy or read/watch the horror show that is local news?
It's simply a known thing in Florida. You commit a crime, and someone dies, you're probably fricked. Adults preach it pretty regularly to young people.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:04 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Should these college students be charged with murder?
How is the fact that they are "college students" even remotely fricking relevant to the question of whether they should be charged?
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:06 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
For a murder conviction you have to have some kind of motive and intent to kill.
O.k. Mr. Cochran.Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:09 pm to BestBanker
quote:
Thinking dude don't get capped by homeowner if all four of them decided to grab a dorm pizza and play video games instead of robbing the homeowner. The other 3 caused the death? Charged.
No lawyer here but we covered this topic real good in one of them b-law classes and that's precisely what the law is there for, added consequence and food for thought before you go committing felonies.
It's not like they were yahooing a case of beer from circle k.
I like the law. Most times you see it could be applied and isn't. This is one where it should add weight to each of their sentences.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:13 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
Somebody I know that worked with him in HS said it's going around that they could have even been cutting through yards, hopping fences and just on this persons property.
Something most folks my age used to do as kids w/o fear of getting shot.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:16 pm to Funky Tide 8
seems like the felony/murder rule shouldn't be applied if the person that dies was also committing a felony.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:16 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
He or she commits or attempts to commit arson in the first degree, burglary in the first or second degree, escape in the first degree, kidnapping in the first degree, rape in the first degree, robbery in any degree, sodomy in the first degree, any other felony clearly dangerous to human life and, in the course of and in furtherance of the crime that he or she is committing or attempting to commit, or in immediate flight therefrom, he or she, or another participant if there be any, causes the death of any person.
Alabama felony murder statute
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:40 pm to beaver
quote:
there are three quick examples that took 2 minutes to find
now stop making shite up, it's always been the law and currently is in 46 states
Those examples are all within the last 20 years. It wasn't until the mid-20th century that felony murder charges started sticking when a co-conspirator is justifiably killed. It is/was a nonsensical perversion of common law felony murder.
See Commonwealth v. Thomas, 382 Pa. 639, 117 A.2d 204 (1955).
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:50 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Should these college students be charged with murder?
Yes. The law is pretty clear I believe that when your criminal activity results in the death of someone, you've committed murder.
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