re: Serial ... Is Adnan Syed Guilty?

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He most certainly did not have to be anyone's accomplice. He could have done it himself.

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So if he did it himself, and the cops are corrupt and looking for easy closes to murder cases so their stats look better, there has to be just as much to connect him to it as there is for Adnan, so if you are the cops wanting the quickest easiest close to the case, why not just pin it all on Jay? Why go through the whole labor of coaching a confession from Jay that pins Adnan? Just jimmy the evidence and get a confession to the murder itself from Jay. Or just try Jay on the evidence if he won't confess. That's easier than the dog and pony show of trying Adnan through Jay's confession. Occam's Razor again.

Fair enough. So was it Jenn who Jay was allegedly hooking up with behind Stephanie's back? I have a hard time remembering as it was a while ago that I listened. I just remember that Jenn and Jay had a weird relationship.

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Fair enough. So was it Jenn who Jay was allegedly hooking up with behind Stephanie's back? I have a hard time remembering as it was a while ago that I listened. I just remember that Jenn and Jay had a weird relationship.

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I'm not sure. Even the Undisclosed people have been somewhat askance in their treatment of Jenn. For me, there is a flashing red siren hovering over her and her involvement.

I can't remember now why the cops brought Jay in in the first place. But I think the timeline of interrogations would satisfy some of your questions about why go with Jay. These investigators have been proven to be incompetent assholes at best. More likely they are duplicitous scumbags. Did you listen to the episode about their past cases? I mean, literally, there are several in which the convicted were released from prison years later due to horrible investigatory mismanagement and deceit. (things like withholding exculpatory evidence.)

What happened was these guys got an anonymous tip to look at Adnan. They started looking at him, he wouldn't talk. Somehow they got onto Jay, and he was happy to help them tie it up in a bow on Adnan.

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Undisclosed.

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Yea, they are waaaaay too one-sided for me to believe all of their claims.

It's more likely than not that Adnan did it. I would never vote to convict though.

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Give an explicit example of them being "one sided" or biased in their research and/or claims. Just one.

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Er. The entire podcast series?

Look, I don't begrudge the people who made it, from presenting things the way they do; in fact, it is a highly effective way of presenting a narrative-- but they are largely defense attorneys and advocates.

If a group of well-organized professional lawyers couldn't argue convincingly, essentially against air (no prosecutorial case representation, no rebuttal), I'd be more disturbed about the incompetency of criminal defense in this country.

This is like saying someone is a heavyweight champion, based on shadow boxing.

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anyone who thinks Adnan is guilty... I suggest you go listen to the latest podcast called "Undisclosed".

it is way better than Serial. Way more information

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I listened to a couple of episodes but it's obvious that is slanted to Adnon's side.

It's something a conspiracy theorist would love though. I'm too logical in my thought process to not dismiss most of their "evidence"

No. I almost think Jay made it all up to the police.

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You should at least listen to the episode on bail. Somebody from the state needs to go to prison for a long time for that bit of scumbaggery. I hope Urick gets put away too.

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You talking about the police writing his age down incorrectly? How did he lawyer not notice that???

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It's something a conspiracy theorist would love though. I'm too logical in my thought process to not dismiss most of their "evidence"

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I think you accidentally spelled "pretentious" as "logical."

I've actually been pretty skeptical of the Undisclosed crew due to their clear belief in Adnan's innocence. I also think they're a little too dry and not as well-suited at telling a narrative than the Serial crew (a point they repeatedly confess).

That being said, they have done a pretty good job of highlighting a lot of poignant facts and inappropriate methods that occurred throughout the case. Biased or not, the cellphone tower evidence is bunk, autopsy reports completely rule out whole swaths of the timeline, the investigators did frick a few things up in a major way, there is quite a bit of evidence that the prosecution withheld or manipulated, and on and on and on.

When I finished Serial, I was of the opinion that Adnan was likely guilty, but I don't think so now. He may have been involved, but there don't seem to be many facts that would suggest he actually did it, if there are any at all.

I have my own pet theory as to why there are so many players involved who tell wildly inconsistent stories. I think that Hae was, in Jenn's words, a little stuck up and some people may not have liked her. I know this is speculation, but it does occasionally happen that groups of teenagers will turn on a member of their circle, leading to their conspiring to kill that person. The movie "Bully" and "Alpha Dogs" we're about that sort of thing. This is just my pet theory in listening to the podcasts and I may totally change my mind and abandon this theory.

At the end of the day, this whole thing revolves around the fact that so much time passed between Hae's disappearance, discovery, Adnan's arrest, trial, and conviction that I think this is a sort of fractal that has no definitive end -the more things are parsed apart, the less clear conclusions become.

What will happen is, years from now, somebody will confess. Until then, it's just a wildly interesting mystery to follow.