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re: Russia to commence invasion of the Ukraine next week, Western defense officials believe

Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:18 pm to
Posted by whitetiger1234
They/Them
Member since Oct 2016
6476 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:18 pm to
Military Industrial Complex strikes again!
Posted by Snazzmeister
IHTFP
Member since Jan 2015
1151 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

Haha, this isn't WWII. They will just drive in on paved roads, and take over virtually unopposed. The air and cyber war will be what puts them in control, not tank and mechanized movements. Those methods are not really necessary these days.


If the last 20 years have taught us anything, it’s that the ability to take and hold ground is still the only way to win a war. Air and cyber power certainly won’t lose them the war but it won’t win it either. A mad dash to Kiev while securing bridges and crossroads may be step one but the idea that they can just ignore securing ground with conventional forces is naive.
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
18870 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

Biden needs distractions in a bad way.

This terrifies me. The covid narrative is crashing hard and they desperately need a new talking point.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72422 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:24 pm to
quote:

I agree with what you are saying, I just don't see where the Ukraine has the forces to defend any of this space. They are vastly outmanned and outgunned. Much more likely that they acquiesce pretty quickly and sue for peace by giving up the Crimea I think.


They are vastly outmanned and outgunned. What you’re not understanding is they don’t have to have men in trenches shoulder to shoulder like it’s 1916. All it takes is setting up defensive strongpoints on the flanks of those roads to slow the advance. And if the advancing Russian forces are all concentrated on the roads themselves, it’s all the easier to stop their column and destroy huge chunks of it at a time.

If the Russians were stupid enough to invade during the Rasputitsa, they’d be limiting their own striking power leading to higher casualties and a slower advance. I don’t think Russia is that stupid though. So, as I said, if they’re going to do it, and that’s a really big “if”, it will be soon or it won’t be at all.
Posted by Tiger in NY
Neptune Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2003
31436 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:33 pm to
We are in agreement that they want to act sooner, rather than later. I am just saying there are far more paved routes, railroad access, and technology available today that makes the Rasputitsa not as significant as it was for Hitler 80 years ago. They would want to avoid, but that wouldn't be what stopped them, and I do still think this will be over quickly. Guidance, drones, and other technology allows you to extend your reach much more efficiently today.
This post was edited on 2/11/22 at 3:34 pm
Posted by Abstract Queso Dip
Member since Mar 2021
5878 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:44 pm to
Honeypots are a real thing bruh. Now is the time to do it to before it gets crazier. Those Rooskies are all riled up... Testosterone is going. A couple of trucks with hot chicks/prostitutes with some vodka and powder and those dudes will be lit. Then you send in another team on the secret to kill all the bad guys quietly with jabs of fentanyl or something else to make them go night night forever.

Y'all don't watch enough spy movies
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72422 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:47 pm to
What you’re not taking into account is that while technology has vastly advanced since WWII, some things still remain the same. What I’m talking about is logistics. Those armored and mechanized forces are going to have to deploy cross-country. The tanks should handle all but the worst of the mud. Although even that is not guaranteed, especially over ground that’s already been churned up by other vehicles. The same is true of the tracked APCs and fighting vehicles. Even if the first echelon vehicles can make a go of, the follow-on forces will increasingly struggle in ever worsening conditions. Yes, even modern tanks can and do get stuck in mud. I speak from experience.

Also, those tanks and other tracked vehicles are still reliant on their logistics trains that keep them supplied with literally everything from food, ammo, fuel, replacement parts, etc. Those items are transported via trucks. The armored forces, and infantry for that matter, can only go where their logistics trains can support them. That’s why the Rasputitsa would make a Russian invasion a nightmare logistically speaking.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
76603 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

Western defense officials
Are these the same guys that didn’t feel that Afghanistan would immediately fall?

Yea, real trustworthy lot.
This post was edited on 2/11/22 at 3:48 pm
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
72182 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

three Western and defense officials tell me.


quote:

six US and Western officials tell me,

So....is that 9 total confirmations? Or, 6 total with three Western and defense officials and three US officials?
This post was edited on 2/11/22 at 3:53 pm
Posted by Fat and Happy
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2013
19548 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:50 pm to
I really really don’t want this begin a heated world military deal.
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
36642 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:52 pm to
Opens up one eager eye
Focusing on the sky
While ninety nine red balloons blow by
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72422 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

While ninety nine red balloons blow by


I’ve got Spotify playing in my office and this song just came on when you posted this.
Posted by jchamil
Member since Nov 2009
18940 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

I’ve got Spotify playing in my office and this song just came on when you posted this.



The version in German or the version in English? Either way, that music is now stuck in my head
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72422 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

The version in German or the version in English? Either way, that music is now stuck in my head


Deutsch natürlich
Posted by Thracken13
Aft Cargo Hold of Serenity
Member since Feb 2010
18566 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:07 pm to
forgot the "'s
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
104457 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:10 pm to
It won't be Barbarossa in reverse, at least not initially. Capturing and occupying hostile territory is a last resort, if it's in his plan at all. He wants a client state in his orbit instead of the west's orbit, and a template for bringing the Baltics back into the Bear's embrace, and even daring to dream about Poland if he's feeling particularly ambitious.

His first choice was to bluff and threaten his way into that outcome, but that hasn't worked. Next he'll probably try a false flag operation as a pretext for a limited strike to topple the government and replace it with a puppet regime enforced by Russian "peacekeepers.". This is exactly what he did in Kazakhstan a few weeks ago. It worked then. If the Ukrainians prove more resilient and don't fold in a week or so, it means Putin fricked up. At that point he'll look weak if he doesn't go all in and we've got a major European war on our hands.
This post was edited on 2/11/22 at 4:17 pm
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72422 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:18 pm to
The only way Putin turns Ukraine into a puppet state is to topple the government. He can’t achieve this goal without taking and holding Kiev. That will require a full blown invasion.
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
41124 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:26 pm to
These are the same people who've been saying Iran is an existential threat for 4 decades (to no avail) and who claimed Saddam had WMD's. War is a racket.
Posted by Abstract Queso Dip
Member since Mar 2021
5878 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 4:29 pm to
They have been... We just did a really good job at sabotaging Iranian tech on the nuclear level. Spies definitely kicked Iran's arse.
Posted by Cenlabration
The Ville of Pine
Member since Apr 2021
1399 posts
Posted on 2/11/22 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

Putin wants to take Ukraine, there’s nothing to stop him. He knows it.

Not so fast. You forget that the Ukraine just mobilized they're new EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicles they bought from the U.S.
Russia could be in for a big surprise.

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