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re: Report: Pilots disobeyed orders in Black Hawk crash in Florida
Posted on 10/24/15 at 12:11 pm to mattz1122
Posted on 10/24/15 at 12:11 pm to mattz1122
quote:
Not questioning perceived authority.
Never been in the military huh? Never taught to take orders huh.
I can see it now: PFC to lt HEY, LETS GET TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THIS BEFORE WE CHARGE THAT HILL.
2
Posted on 10/24/15 at 12:31 pm to Redbone
In this case, I think it was probably more likely a CW3 deferring to a CW4, or a CW4 deferring to another CW4 who was aircraft commander for the mission. Both were experienced aviators, but somebody has to have the final word.
It's a sad situation for the crew, their families and everyone in the 244th. Not to mention the seven Marine customers who died along with the crew of MOJO 69.
Edit: Griffin and Strother were both CW4. Griffin had over 6,000 hrs, including ~1,000 combat hrs. Strother had ~2,400 hrs and ~700 combat hrs. I believe Griffin was AMC on this mission, but I'm not 100% positive.
These weren't a couple of guys who were fresh out of school at Ft Rucker.
It's a sad situation for the crew, their families and everyone in the 244th. Not to mention the seven Marine customers who died along with the crew of MOJO 69.
Edit: Griffin and Strother were both CW4. Griffin had over 6,000 hrs, including ~1,000 combat hrs. Strother had ~2,400 hrs and ~700 combat hrs. I believe Griffin was AMC on this mission, but I'm not 100% positive.
These weren't a couple of guys who were fresh out of school at Ft Rucker.
This post was edited on 10/24/15 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 10/24/15 at 12:46 pm to White Roach
quote:
Edit: Griffin and Strother were both CW4. Griffin had over 6,000 hrs, including ~1,000 combat hrs. Strother had ~2,400 hrs and ~700 combat hrs. I believe Griffin was AMC on this mission, but I'm not 100% positive.
Griffin was the aircraft commander and the lead pilot of the overall mission. He was also the battalion standardization pilot.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 12:57 pm to Redbone
Never went to English class, huh?
Posted on 10/24/15 at 1:07 pm to Ace Midnight
Ace:
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend(s). If you're ever off duty in Hammond, there's a small memorial set up in the Crescent Bar. Some of the unit members are regulars, and the owner is a strong supporter of the military.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend(s). If you're ever off duty in Hammond, there's a small memorial set up in the Crescent Bar. Some of the unit members are regulars, and the owner is a strong supporter of the military.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 4:00 pm to White Roach
quote:
These weren't a couple of guys who were fresh out of school at Ft Rucker.
To strengthen your point I wouldn't include combat hours. Those combat hours you listed with 1000 being the highest is not very much at all. For example a single deployment to Afghanistan yielded me just short of 1000 combat hours.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 5:34 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
Griffin had 21 years of service and Strother had 26. Not all were as aviators, but my point is that this wasn't these guy's first weenie roast.
Just out of curiosity, and I don't mean to insult anyone by asking this question, but from a military pilot's perspective (aren't you an Apache pilot?), how many flight hours does a military pilot has to have to be presumed to be a competent aviator by his peers? I'd think a guy with 6400 hours had been around the block several times. But maybe that's a low number for career pilots.
Just out of curiosity, and I don't mean to insult anyone by asking this question, but from a military pilot's perspective (aren't you an Apache pilot?), how many flight hours does a military pilot has to have to be presumed to be a competent aviator by his peers? I'd think a guy with 6400 hours had been around the block several times. But maybe that's a low number for career pilots.
This post was edited on 10/24/15 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 10/24/15 at 5:44 pm to White Roach
Most of the time a BN/SQ SP would have around 4-5k total hours with 2.5-3.5k combat. It isn't about hours though this incident is a perfect example. You get these high time CW4s and CW5s who will kill you in a heartbeat. I think a very broad generalization in the Apache world on Active Duty at least would be if you have 200 or more PC hours with over 1000 hours total time and one combat deployment you would call that person "competent" 9 times out of 10.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 6:39 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
Patrick_Bateman
STFU you piece of shite.
Edit: this thread needs to be whacked. Bunch of speculation and gossiping going on about a topic that doesn't need it. And then idiots like ^^^ this guy
This post was edited on 10/24/15 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 10/24/15 at 6:44 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
There was a helicopter pilot in rehab with meWhat did his knuckles look like
They were white!
Posted on 10/24/15 at 7:28 pm to sicboy
For the sake of their families, please stop posting about the matter! David was a personal friend and a beautiful person. If none of you never knew any of the soldiers that went down, please keep your thoughts to your damn self and let them rest!
Posted on 10/24/15 at 7:38 pm to MudEngineer318
quote:
If none of you never knew any of the soldiers that went down, please keep your thoughts to your damn self and let them rest!
I knew TC from college so I guess that qualifies me to continue posting according to your criteria.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 7:40 pm to MudEngineer318
I'm sorry about your friend. I can honestly tell you that I meant no disrespect by my posts. One of my college roommates flew Blackhawks for the 244th, so this also hits home for me.
Posted on 10/24/15 at 7:45 pm to GeeOH
5 times lower? Wow!
Is that how ceilings are measured?
Is that how ceilings are measured?
Posted on 10/24/15 at 7:51 pm to Patrick_Bateman
Sounds like you don't know dick about aviation.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 10:50 pm to sicboy
Military Times - Black Hawk tragedy: Orders were ignored and 11 men died
quote:
Seconds after his Black Hawk helicopter took off for a March 10 training mission — filled with seven Marine special operators and three fellow Louisiana Army National Guardsmen — the pilot remarked: "Gee, it's dark as [expletive]."
Less than five minutes later, after a series of maneuvers and radio transmissions that suggested both helo pilots were disoriented by the lack of visibility, the UH-60M hit the waters of Santa Rosa Sound at an unsurvivable speed.
Everyone on board was killed, marking the single deadliest day for Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command since its creation in 2006.
Marines who'd been expecting to provide maritime support for the exercise would instead pilot their watercraft through a debris field.
The tragedy is that these troops should not have been in the air that day. The crews were warned repeatedly in briefings of the weather restrictions, according to an investigation involving both LAANG and MARSOC personnel. Knowing the restrictions, the helo crews went out on the exercise anyway, the investigation found, noting the soldiers "disobeyed a direct order" by flying that day.
Details about who gave the mission brief instructing the troops not to fly under those conditions were redacted. The Louisiana National Guard declined to discuss the report. But in the wake of the accident, investigators recommended new training procedures and safeguards meant to prevent similar tragedies from happening in the future, according to the report.
Chief Warrant Officer 4 George Wayne Griffin Jr., one of the Louisiana Guard's top pilots, made the decision to fly in weather conditions worse than the 1,000-foot ceiling and three-mile visibility outlined in all mission briefs, the report found. He was selected for the MARSOC mission in part because he was known as an "aggressive" pilot, according to the investigation.
Posted on 11/2/15 at 1:48 am to nes2010
quote:
Pilots tend to be confident.
Mother Nature always trumps pilot confidence. I don't want a confident pilot. I want a humble pilot.
Posted on 11/2/15 at 6:42 am to Wolfhound45
That's just terrible. 
Posted on 11/2/15 at 10:16 am to tigerpimpbot
quote:Sorry bro. Realize it is a local story and thought some on the board would like to know more of the backstory. RIP to those who lost their lives.
That's just terrible.
Posted on 11/2/15 at 10:20 am to Rhino5
quote:
Amazing the Army allows chief warrant officers to fly an aircraft. Ridiculous
that comment makes no sense..... so who you want to fly them
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