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re: Question for the OT Lawyers - School Later in Life
Posted on 8/31/17 at 12:49 pm to BigPerm30
Posted on 8/31/17 at 12:49 pm to BigPerm30
Depends on your current job and age and if you'll have to take out a ton of debt.
I'm 3 years out. Except the top couple people in the class, or the couple guys killing it at a Plaintiff's firm, no one from my class is making over $100k in salary. There are definitely exceptions to this, but that's far from the rule. It seems like the 6-7 year mark is when the income spikes to making real money.
Just know you are signing up for at least $100k in debt, maybe more, to not make any money for 3 years and make $60k-$80k for 6-7 years before you see compensation that makes you want to be a lawyer. On top of that, law school ain't fun and working as a lawyer is a lot of long hours at the start.
So you just have to look at what your current income and how old you are. A lot of opportunity costs. Imo, 31 and 38 are vastly different. 38 means you won't be making really good money until you're almost 50. And you'll have to pay back debt.
I'm 3 years out. Except the top couple people in the class, or the couple guys killing it at a Plaintiff's firm, no one from my class is making over $100k in salary. There are definitely exceptions to this, but that's far from the rule. It seems like the 6-7 year mark is when the income spikes to making real money.
Just know you are signing up for at least $100k in debt, maybe more, to not make any money for 3 years and make $60k-$80k for 6-7 years before you see compensation that makes you want to be a lawyer. On top of that, law school ain't fun and working as a lawyer is a lot of long hours at the start.
So you just have to look at what your current income and how old you are. A lot of opportunity costs. Imo, 31 and 38 are vastly different. 38 means you won't be making really good money until you're almost 50. And you'll have to pay back debt.
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Posted on 8/31/17 at 12:57 pm to Vegas Eddie
I went to Law School at 22, and a guy who was in LSU ROTC with my dad in the mid-1960s was in my section. He had recently retired from the Army. He managed to finish, and to pass the Bar, but I don't think he practised long. He is the headmaster of some private school these days.
So, it can be done, I just wonder if the profession is something that you want to start later in life. There is much dissatisfaction, and it can be tough to earn a living, and pretty stressful. If you have a family member in a firm that can provide a job, that is always helpful.
So, it can be done, I just wonder if the profession is something that you want to start later in life. There is much dissatisfaction, and it can be tough to earn a living, and pretty stressful. If you have a family member in a firm that can provide a job, that is always helpful.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:13 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
She married a federal judge in North La.
#HotLawClerks
That seems to be a career path for many chicklawyers. Used to be, clerkships were all kids straight out of law schools, and they lasted one year, then you had to go find a job. Now you have permanent law clerks, and most, but not all, are women.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:14 pm to Vegas Eddie
Not quite. I was 28, but it was way worth it. If your purpose is to become educated, be admitted to practice, preform a professional service for people (individuals, companies, government) and receive a fair fee for same, then join the club. The rewards (monetary and non-monetary) will come. If you're going to go to law school to make money off of people and get rich, keep doing what you're doing. We don't need another amoral, greedy, feckless member of the profession. There are too many as it is. Good luck. I mean it.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:24 pm to Vegas Eddie
<<<< started after 30.
Was worth it. Good to have some "real world" and "real life" experience under your belt. Plus, you are less likely to do stupid shite and frick yourself by dicking around.
Was worth it. Good to have some "real world" and "real life" experience under your belt. Plus, you are less likely to do stupid shite and frick yourself by dicking around.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:30 pm to Ice Cold
quote:
If you not sure, don't do it.
That is what I tell anyone who asks me if they should go to law school.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:30 pm to lsuwins3
quote:
My Mom went back to law school at 47. Had Masters in Education got tired of busting her butt for the same money as all the other teachers. Practiced 16-17 years before retiring. Best move she ever made.
Does your mother's first name start with a D? Had someone in my small section that fits the description.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:34 pm to Vegas Eddie
quote:
This is talked about a lot.
There are some good reasons.
quote:
Is it starting salaries are down bad?
Working for someone else salaries are bad. Law Review from Tulane seem to do okay. Coif from Loyola and LSU do okay.
The rest is a dogfight - and it seems to be getting worse. It's a buyer's market for legal services. If you are going into a very novel field, with connections, you'll do alright. If you have enough money to start and fund your own firm (including marketing that firm) for a couple of years, you'll be alright.
If you're going to have to work in firms for 5 to 7 years to get established or want to make partner in a firm where you can make what is perceived as "lawyer" money, then you better be near the top of your class.
I don't know what else to tell you.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:36 pm to Vegas Eddie
quote:
Just looking for overall experiences. Looking back was it worth it? Would you do it again?
Law school is not worth it at any age.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:41 pm to Ace Midnight
you can always go work for the gubmint.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:41 pm to DVA Tailgater
Not personally, but some I know have had issues. And it wasn't as late as their 30s, but getting into law school, accumulating debt, then having issues passing the bar and finding work. Unless you're going to dedicate every waking moment to law, it isn't wise.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:44 pm to Vegas Eddie
I am in law school now, and I can't imagine going back more than a couple of years after undergrad. Trying to go from not studying academically, to studying as much as you do in law school would be extremely challenging for me. That's just me personally, though.
So, I certainly would not discourage it, because it is different for everyone.
So, I certainly would not discourage it, because it is different for everyone.
This post was edited on 8/31/17 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:46 pm to Vegas Eddie
I went to the 82nd Airborne prep school when I was 19, went to undergrad at 24 and started law school at 28. There were several people in their 30s and a couple in their 40s.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:47 pm to Mung
quote:
you can always go work for the gubmint.
Yeah, but guys don't go to law school thinking, "Man, it's going to be sweet landing that GS-11 (~$60k) job."
This post was edited on 8/31/17 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:08 pm to Ace Midnight
Not surprisingly, going to a top tier law school and doing well will have good financial outcomes. Going to a mediocre law school and planning to practice in a mediocre market will have uncertain outcomes. Paying a shite ton to go to a mediocre or bad school will most often have bad outcomes.
Question of whether the practice of law sucks or not is a different matter altogether.
Question of whether the practice of law sucks or not is a different matter altogether.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:10 pm to Ace Midnight
You should not go to law school unless you really really want to be a lawyer. Law school basically sucks and being a lawyer is not fun unless you like stress, are highly competitive, can deal with anxiety, and are not afraid of taking financial risks. That being said, if you are good, you can make unbelievable money (good lawyers can easily make 30k-60k per month take home). But usually that means starting your own firm and working for yourself. Its not going to happen working your way up the hierarchy in a big firm-unless or until you reach the inner circle at 45-50 years old. One thing that I recommend to everyone before going to law school-take an accounting class. It is a business like any other and most lawyers are terrible businessmen.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:11 pm to Vegas Eddie
Is there a law school near you that offers night classes?
I went to Southern, in the night program. It takes 4 years rather than 3, but I worked 50+ hours a week throughout school and it was never a problem. Most people in my program were pushing 40, though I don't know an official average age. I was definitely the youngest at 22. I had classmates that drove in from Lafayette, New Orleans, and McComb, MS every night after work (those 3 passed the bar the first time). I know Southern has a deplorable reputation but the night school is the cheapest route to a JD, between low tuition & keeping opportunity costs down by working. Go for it if you have a plan.
The only way to do that - in your own firm - is to have an injury practice with very good paralegals and a big ad budget.
I went to Southern, in the night program. It takes 4 years rather than 3, but I worked 50+ hours a week throughout school and it was never a problem. Most people in my program were pushing 40, though I don't know an official average age. I was definitely the youngest at 22. I had classmates that drove in from Lafayette, New Orleans, and McComb, MS every night after work (those 3 passed the bar the first time). I know Southern has a deplorable reputation but the night school is the cheapest route to a JD, between low tuition & keeping opportunity costs down by working. Go for it if you have a plan.
quote:
(good lawyers can easily make 30k-60k per month take home). But usually that means starting your own firm and working for yourself.
The only way to do that - in your own firm - is to have an injury practice with very good paralegals and a big ad budget.
This post was edited on 9/5/17 at 11:12 am
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:20 pm to Verbal Kent
quote:
You should not go to law school unless you really really want to be a lawyer.
Agreed - too many folks go to law school casually and then realize all they're qualified to do is practice law and they don't really want to.
quote:
Law school basically sucks and being a lawyer is not fun
Meh - I guess I made the right call - I enjoyed law school and actually practicing law.
quote:
That being said, if you are good, you can make unbelievable money (good lawyers can easily make 30k-60k per month take home).
Eh - if "good lawyers" you mean, "guys who can afford to advertise for car wreck cases" - and even then, I would bet that not 2500 of our ~20k lawyers are even in the ballpark of $360k "take home" (maybe 2000 or so in the $360k gross pay category - I'd buy that) - and maybe 500 to 700 are in the half a million and up.
Maybe my perspective outside BR and New Orleans have jaded me, but I just didn't see guys making that kind of money - now there were rich lawyers - Pat Morrow, Opelousas - for example - but he owns land, restaurants, he's a diversified, legitimately wealthy cat. There are guys who've made a literal shite TON of money, Darrel Ryland, Marksville, Danny Becnel, Laplace - another guy with more money than sense, have made uncountable millions practicing law.
But, for every one of them, are 10 slugging it out in DA offices, PD bureaus, perhaps balancing a civil practice on the side to eek out $100k, $125k maybe, and even more in defense firms or small shops not doing that well, at least for 8 to 10 years out of school.
This post was edited on 8/31/17 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:23 pm to GaryMyMan
You do not have to have a big ad budget-all of our marketing is SEO for our website. I do not even think you can break into the TV market anymore-it is too saturated-takes to many gross rating points to be noticed. If you do gooood work, other lawyers will send you work that they do not know how to do or cannot afford to fund. Does not have to be PI, but that is the most sure way. There are lots of outstanding lawyers who make very good livings who do not advertise on TV.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:31 pm to Ace Midnight
First, I do enjoy practicing law and my statement was practicing law is not fun unless you are highly competitive, etc. On most of your post, I absolutely agree with you. Lots of lawyers work very hard and do not receive compensation commensurate with their efforts and ability-and the market for new graduates is very tough. But not all lawyers that make a good living advertise on TV, I can assure you that. I have a friend who makes $500.00 an hour doing essentially high end title work.
Another who specializes in high end commercial litigation in a small firm. I do handle PI and I did get lucky, but started with literally nothing, wife pregnant, grinding. 10 years later was an overnight success.
Another who specializes in high end commercial litigation in a small firm. I do handle PI and I did get lucky, but started with literally nothing, wife pregnant, grinding. 10 years later was an overnight success.
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