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re: OT military brass, ROTC/OCS question
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:54 am to GrammarKnotsi
Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:54 am to GrammarKnotsi
Yes, I should of edited to add considering getting his GPA up.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 9:12 am
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Posted on 9/13/23 at 6:56 am to Jim Rockford
I'm a retired Air Force officer that went to OTS and was also the Ops officer at a recruiting squadron for 3 years. We recruited officer candidates, did tons of interviews, and I also was in charge of the Air Force side of the MEPS at two different facilities.
GPA means a lot, but if he buckles down and can show the improvement and convince the powers that be that he is worthy then I'd recommend ROTC. He will still be in college having fun and also get those butterbars when he graduates. OCS/OTS isn't always taking candidates and is really the third leg of the triad of commissioning paths in the military (academy/ROTC/OCS-OTS). Provided everything else looks great then his biggest hurdle will be the GPA, but imho it is manageable if he brings it up. ROTC is much more receptive to those circumstances.
As for which branch, all have their advantages. The Air Force is much more technical, the Navy after that, while obviously the Army and Marine Corps are in a different realm, and the physical side is much more emphasized.
In any case, good luck to him and I hope it works out. Hope this helps a little.
GPA means a lot, but if he buckles down and can show the improvement and convince the powers that be that he is worthy then I'd recommend ROTC. He will still be in college having fun and also get those butterbars when he graduates. OCS/OTS isn't always taking candidates and is really the third leg of the triad of commissioning paths in the military (academy/ROTC/OCS-OTS). Provided everything else looks great then his biggest hurdle will be the GPA, but imho it is manageable if he brings it up. ROTC is much more receptive to those circumstances.
As for which branch, all have their advantages. The Air Force is much more technical, the Navy after that, while obviously the Army and Marine Corps are in a different realm, and the physical side is much more emphasized.
In any case, good luck to him and I hope it works out. Hope this helps a little.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:44 am to Sam Quint
quote:
Needs to be doing 23 pullups and a 3:45 plank
I think these are for max scores and truthfully if you're going to be a Marine Officer that's how you need to think; however, for selection for OCS you don't need to max the PFT just need to be on the higher end.
That being said, ask any Marine officer what's the minimum required PFT and most won't even know, but they all know what it takes to max it. If you don't have that mentality, try another service.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:50 am to Teufelhunden
I promise you that most competitive OCS applicants will be maxing pullups and the plank, and they will have very good run times too. Maxing the pullups and plank is just a matter of discipline and PT, whereas an 18 minute three mile may be out of the realm of the possible for some people. Max pullups and plank is free chicken on the pft - no reason not to max it.
But to your point, no - it isn't an absolute requirement.
Max, max, 22:00 (or faster) is kind of the standard to be considered highly competitive, but lower numbers can be negated by other attributes on the resumé.
But to your point, no - it isn't an absolute requirement.
Max, max, 22:00 (or faster) is kind of the standard to be considered highly competitive, but lower numbers can be negated by other attributes on the resumé.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 7:51 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:53 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Cons: he has a shite GPA right now. Partly his own fault, partly circumstances. COVID lockdowns, hurricanes, and poor time management basically. The last few semesters he's been working full time and going to school part time. I think he's finally getting his bearings.
As long as he is above a 2.5ish (marines don't care about gpa as much as navy, and college major also plays a part) he should be fine.
The real limit is going to be if he decides he wants something past O-3, where the vast majority of his peers will have a master's degree. If he can't get a master's he will probably be out in 5 years as a CPT or O-3 LT (Navy).
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 7:59 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 8:09 am to Sam Quint
Concur, pull-ups and plank max are doable. The plank is new, but before the change I remember Neller saying, 'if you can't get 100 crunches, you don't have a friend in the Corps.' 
Posted on 9/13/23 at 8:09 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
The real limit is going to be if he decides he wants something past O-3, where the vast majority of his peers will have a master's degree. If he can't get a master's he will probably be out in 5 years as a CPT or O-3 LT (Navy).
i cant speak for the other branches, but this is absolutely not the case in the Marines. having a master's certainly doesnt hurt anyone's case for promotion, but it is definitely not the vast majority of career Marine officers who have them. i dont have one, none of my close friends have one, and only a few officers in my larger network do.
we care much more about job performance than off duty education.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 8:10 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 8:53 am to Sam Quint
Did you read my very first post where I said I don’t know the current requirements so contact the OSO/OSA? Reading for Marines , derp.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 8:59 am to momentoftruth87
you dont need to be offended, there is no reason you should know the current requirements. that's why i posted them. relax.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 9:06 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
IDK what his numbers are or if he's even worked on it yet but he can be a PT stud if he's motivated enough
Posted on 9/13/23 at 9:09 am to Jim Rockford
Some good and plenty of bad advice in this thread.
Have him go speak to ROTC for each branch as a start. OCS slots arent always available and as previously mentioned are the third commissioning source. While PT scores are a factor I'd be most concerned with academics and other factors. AF uses AFOQT for officer testing not ASVAB. I think Navy (and I'd guess USMC) uses OAR not sure about Army. If he doesnt qualify now, it might be possible to get GPA up and do ROTC as a grad student. Full ROTC scholarships are much more competitive than just being in ROTC and commissioning.
***Dont let anyone convince him that enlisting is the easiest path to commission.
In my experience (USAF) enlisted commissioning opportunities are extremely competitive more so than ROTC. So many enlisted Airmen have degrees nowadays only the most competitive get picked up for OTS. Unfortunately those in the most demanding career fields often cant compete on paper with others that have time to do a bunch of off duty service that garners them awards and accolades.
If self discipline, time management, adapting to challenging circumstances and balancing work and academics are still a struggle being a military officer may not be a good fit.
Have him go speak to ROTC for each branch as a start. OCS slots arent always available and as previously mentioned are the third commissioning source. While PT scores are a factor I'd be most concerned with academics and other factors. AF uses AFOQT for officer testing not ASVAB. I think Navy (and I'd guess USMC) uses OAR not sure about Army. If he doesnt qualify now, it might be possible to get GPA up and do ROTC as a grad student. Full ROTC scholarships are much more competitive than just being in ROTC and commissioning.
***Dont let anyone convince him that enlisting is the easiest path to commission.
In my experience (USAF) enlisted commissioning opportunities are extremely competitive more so than ROTC. So many enlisted Airmen have degrees nowadays only the most competitive get picked up for OTS. Unfortunately those in the most demanding career fields often cant compete on paper with others that have time to do a bunch of off duty service that garners them awards and accolades.
If self discipline, time management, adapting to challenging circumstances and balancing work and academics are still a struggle being a military officer may not be a good fit.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 9:20 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 9:22 am to Jim Rockford
ROTC is probably the way to go between the two depending on the service. Army OCS is almost 6 months straight of basic > OCS before you get a commission - that stinks.
I won't lie: if his grades are subpar, then that is a big problem. Both ROTC and OCS are damn competitive, and academic performance is one of the main criteria on which they select. Depending on the school he'd likely need at least a 3.0 and probably closer to a 3.5 to be competitive depending on the service. He would need to get that straightened out ASAP.
It'd be worth talking to the program officers (if ROTC) or an OCS recruiter (if OCS) to at least see what he needs to do.
I won't lie: if his grades are subpar, then that is a big problem. Both ROTC and OCS are damn competitive, and academic performance is one of the main criteria on which they select. Depending on the school he'd likely need at least a 3.0 and probably closer to a 3.5 to be competitive depending on the service. He would need to get that straightened out ASAP.
It'd be worth talking to the program officers (if ROTC) or an OCS recruiter (if OCS) to at least see what he needs to do.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 9:45 am to AbuTheMonkey
If he's squared himself away and commissioning is really his goal, transferring schools may be a useful tactic to reset GPA. I was able to do this as a Jr most credits transferred but GPA didnt. Thus I was able to change from a difficult engineering major to an easier program while remaining in ROTC but dropping my 4 year scholarship. As a freshman on ROTC scholarship AFROTC required a tech major but would accept other majors for Jr/Sr cadets not on full scholly. (that was 1990s though)
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:14 am to TorchtheFlyingTiger
“unfortunate large cultural shift that’s forcing more great people out”
I have a grandson that is a Navy pilot,he flies P-8 Poseidon’s.Last time he came home to visit he seemed some what dis-heartened.He didn’t say much but he did say he would probably get out when his obligation was completed and get an airline job.
Was a big change,previously he was Rah-Rah Navy,definitely wanted to make it a career.
I am a Navy veteran myself (enlisted) but from reading and talking to Navy retirees the Navy is fricked.
One big issue (according to retirees) is when they started putting women on ships.It has just created a lot of drama and chaos,,women are a big distraction that takes sailors focus off the mission.Now on top of that,it’s about enabling gays and transgenders.Crazy stuff.
Nevertheless,my grandson got a great education free and he is set for a good career.
Navy paid off for me also,saw a lot and got an education with assistance of GI bill.
Myself,I don’t regret my four years.
I have a grandson that is a Navy pilot,he flies P-8 Poseidon’s.Last time he came home to visit he seemed some what dis-heartened.He didn’t say much but he did say he would probably get out when his obligation was completed and get an airline job.
Was a big change,previously he was Rah-Rah Navy,definitely wanted to make it a career.
I am a Navy veteran myself (enlisted) but from reading and talking to Navy retirees the Navy is fricked.
One big issue (according to retirees) is when they started putting women on ships.It has just created a lot of drama and chaos,,women are a big distraction that takes sailors focus off the mission.Now on top of that,it’s about enabling gays and transgenders.Crazy stuff.
Nevertheless,my grandson got a great education free and he is set for a good career.
Navy paid off for me also,saw a lot and got an education with assistance of GI bill.
Myself,I don’t regret my four years.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:16 am to Jim Rockford
So as a former officer and experience within the commissioning sources I would say the limiting factor for an NROTC scholarship would be the GPA. It may be different now (not likely) but when I earned my scholarship it was super competitive. In my year group they only offered 6 full scholarships with over 3,000 applicants.
Thus, I would look into the PLC program the Marine Corps offers. It is geared towards individuals that enter college without really knowing what they want to pursue and have not focused academically. Call the local recruiting office and see who the Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) for your son’s area and schedule a meeting.
Thus, I would look into the PLC program the Marine Corps offers. It is geared towards individuals that enter college without really knowing what they want to pursue and have not focused academically. Call the local recruiting office and see who the Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) for your son’s area and schedule a meeting.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:26 am to Sam Quint
quote:
Maxing the pullups and plank is just a matter of discipline and PT, whereas an 18 minute three mile may be out of the realm of the possible for some people.
Maxing the run was never an issue for me (now it would be though). I always trained younger 0’s to get their mile sprint down in the low 5mins or 4’s. Once you do that you can average a sub 6 min mile for 3.
Now the pull-ups were a different issue. When I first went in we could kip and knocking out 20 was a breeze. Then we went to dead hangs. I spent several months “playing cards for pull-ups” on ship before I could knock out 20 dead hangs.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:26 am to LSUA 75
quote:
I have a grandson that is a Navy pilot,he flies P-8 Poseidon’s.Last time he came home to visit he seemed some what dis-heartened.He didn’t say much but he did say he would probably get out when his obligation was completed and get an airline job.
sounds like your grandson is a whiner, my nephew is a Naval Aviator and I'm friends with one of his pilot training buddies and have followed their careers since their winging, they are past the initial commitment and are both working for the airlines but both remain in the Navy reserves and intend to stay there until they can't, my nephew's wife is also an O-5 in Naval intelligence, in addition to all of that I work with many military guys, both retired active duty or retired reserves that maintain affiliation with the military, and am associated with Vietnam ex-POW veterans groups, the current PC/wokeness push has infiltrated the military, no doubt, but it hasn't ruined it the way it's ruining our society
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:30 am to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Maxing the run was never an issue for me (now it would be though). I always trained younger 0’s to get their mile sprint down in the low 5mins. Once you do that you can average a sub 6 min mile for 3. Now the pull-ups were a different issue. When I first went in we could kip and knocking out 20 was a breeze. Then we went to dead hangs. I spent several months “playing cards for pull-ups” on ship before I could knock out 20 dead hangs.
haha sounds like you need to come train me. sixteen years, and i still struggle to stay in the low 20s.
the "recon ron" pullup program can get any fully-abled male to 20+ pullups. it's dummy proof. been using it for years.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:35 am to 777Tiger
quote:
but it hasn't ruined it the way it's ruining our society
with all due respect to your multiple connections to the military, unless you are currently serving in an active duty capacity, you are not qualified to make this assessment any more than i am qualified to make an assessment of the culture in the airlines. and you certainly have no business calling out someone as a "whiner".
left wing politics have absolutely infiltrated the military, and it's trending worse with every passing year.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 10:38 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:42 am to 777Tiger
quote:
quote:
I have a grandson that is a Navy pilot,he flies P-8 Poseidon’s.Last time he came home to visit he seemed some what dis-heartened.He didn’t say much but he did say he would probably get out when his obligation was completed and get an airline job.
sounds like your grandson is a whiner, my nephew is a Naval Aviator and I'm friends with one of his pilot training buddies and have followed their careers since their winging, they are past the initial commitment and are both working for the airlines
Why is his grandson a whiner when both of these dudes did the same thing?? Which I did as well, and I don't really consider myself a whiner.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 10:44 am
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