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Started By
Message
re: Nobody wants to work anymore
Posted on 9/7/22 at 12:52 am to Taxing Authority
Posted on 9/7/22 at 12:52 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
We knew the market precisely, because so many of those guys work contract. We had hired him direct from his contract position with a uplift 6 months before this. So he was already above market. Plus 25%.
...and yet he was magically able to find the same job...excuse me, the same job plus a quarter within 3 weeks.
Now I'm not saying you're lying, but it sure smells shitty in here.
1
Posted on 9/7/22 at 12:53 am to Taxing Authority
quote:You keep talking about these market and contract rates and how you know them precisely, yet this whole discussion is about a guy who got multiple offers 30% higher in a span of 3 weeks. Something isn't adding up here.
Yea a whole 1% for an employee we were paying almost 30% above contract rates.
quote:Because you, the employer, are trying to retain loyal employees. This isn't hard.
If employees are going to make those kinds of business decisions, why shouldn't employers?
Posted on 9/7/22 at 12:55 am to EarlyCuyler3
quote:It's a f*cking quarter. Real shift in the market there.
...and yet he was magically able to find the same job...excuse me, the same job plus a quarter within 3 weeks.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:00 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
It's a f*cking quarter. Real shift in the market there.
You're claiming you gave him 25% more than the market, after he asked for a raise of course. Which you would have just generously done anyway I'm sure had he not asked.
And yet he still somehow found the same job, that apparently just decides to pay above market as well.
It sounds like you don't really know the value of your employees. Which is no doubt why they'd leave for a quarter.
This post was edited on 9/7/22 at 1:01 am
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:13 am to Taxing Authority
quote:I did enter the thread late. But yes while you can't buy loyalty, pay is obviously an essential part of the relationship. Honest and fair pay is critical to earning loyalty. And so is treating people like people instead of like expenses which are to be minimized.
100% CORRECT!!!! That was the entire point. Yet earlier in the thread (maybe you missed it) everyone was saying how employees aren't loyal because employers don't pay enough or are too demanding for the pay.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:16 am to Korkstand
quote:Fair question. A lot of younger guys starting out work at the contract agencies. Basically an employment agency. Younger, guy fresh out of technical school, we were teaching. It's all OJT. We spent a lot of time teaching, training, mentoring him. He wanted to go direct, because he wanted to stay with us. Awesome. We hired him, over his contract pay, meaning he got what he was getting before + what we were paying the contract company. That's not common. Most people were going direct for just their previous contract rates + benefits.
You keep talking about these market and contract rates and how you know them precisely, yet this whole discussion is about a guy who got multiple offers 30% higher in a span of 3 weeks. Something isn't adding up here.
E&P takes off, and a competitor (boom&bust company, many hire/layoff cycles) is hiring and he gets an offer from them. OK. We match + some, because we know if he drags up, he's just going to get laid off in 9-12 months. We advise him that boom&bust does pay well, but they layoff people at the first hat drop. We're way more stable. But... Ok, we'll match it + some, but that's all we can do for a while.
He swears he's the most dedicated employee ever, thank you so much for keeping him. Then drags up for 1% more. Obviously after giving weren't going to match that--not because we're cheap.
quote:Sorry, what loyalty? As you pointed out--you can't buy it.
Because you, the employer, are trying to retain loyal employees.
This post was edited on 9/7/22 at 1:25 am
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:21 am to Korkstand
quote:I've never disagreed with that.
I did enter the thread late. But yes while you can't buy loyalty, pay is obviously an essential part of the relationship. Honest and fair pay is critical to earning loyalty.
quote:So, if not loyalty, what is your justification for overpaying employees?
And so is treating people like people instead of like expenses which are to be minimized.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:24 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
So, if not loyalty, what is your justification for overpaying employees?
When did you overpay someone?
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:25 am to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
When did you overpay someone?
what were you saying about deflections?This post was edited on 9/7/22 at 1:26 am
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:27 am to Taxing Authority
Seems like a pretty straightforward question for a scenario that didn't happen. 
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:29 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Disregarding whatever fluff is in there and the missing details about what happened in the 3 weeks (both at your place and in the employee's life), it sounds like the kid is ambitious. So with this one who got away, and the other 39 of your 40 who stayed on, I'm having a hard time understanding where this anecdote fits in to a thread about people not wanting to work.
A lot of younger guys starting out work at the contract agencies. Basically an employment agency. Younger, guy fresh out of technical school, we were teaching. It's all OJT. We spent a lot of time teaching, training, mentoring him. He wanted to go direct, because he wanted to stay with us. Awesome. We hired him, over his contract pay. E&P takes off, and a competitor (boom&bust company, many hire/layoff cycles) is hiring and he gets an offer from them. OK. We match + some. We advise him that boom&bust does pay well, but they layoff people at the first hat drop. We're way more stable. But... Ok, we'll match it + some, but that's all we can do for a while. He swears he's the most dedicated employee ever, thank you so much for keeping me. Then drags up for 1% more. Obviously after giving weren't going to match that--not because we're cheap.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:30 am to EarlyCuyler3
quote:When did you stop molesting little kids? Seems like a pretty straightforward question for a scenario that didn't happen?
Seems like a pretty straightforward question for a scenario that didn't happen.
I took the time to explain for Korkstand, because he's at least honest enough to try to understand it.
If you'd care to take a crack at the question you quoted, feel free. Otherwise, you're not really worth my time anyomre, as my model has.. converged with damn near no residuals!
This post was edited on 9/7/22 at 1:31 am
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:32 am to Taxing Authority
I don't even work for you and I want to quit.
You made the statement about overpaying someone, not me.
You made the statement about overpaying someone, not me.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:32 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Why would I justify overpaying someone?
So, if not loyalty, what is your justification for overpaying employees?
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:42 am to Korkstand
quote:Hell ya! And I have no problem with that. Kid made a business decision based on earning the very last penny he could make. Why wouldn't an employer treat the relationship any different by paying the very least penny?
it sounds like the kid is ambitious
I'm not saying I do it. But I am questioning the expectation for the employer to overpay, but not the employee to accept underpayment.
quote:Bit different. Different companies. And I don't hire pipe drafters any more. So don't mix those two up (my fault, not yours).
So with this one who got away, and the other 39 of your 40 who stayed on,
quote:It doesn't. At all. It was a response to those saying that employees aren't motivated and aren't loyal to employers because employers aren't willing to overpay them. No one has convinced me it's a good idea yet.
I'm having a hard time understanding where this anecdote fits in to a thread about people not wanting to work.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:46 am to Taxing Authority
I assume you mean “you” figuratively, I made my money the only fashion way by working my arse off and getting a a shitload of education
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:47 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
It was a response to those saying that employees aren't motivated and aren't loyal to employers because employers aren't willing to overpay them.
Which no one said. And is a value judgement at best, one which you are apparently not well at evaluating.
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:55 am to Korkstand
quote:Sorry, that was a bit of a loaded question. But...
Why would I justify overpaying someone?
quote:Seemed to imply that employees should be overpaid by some measure. If I'm negotiating salary with someone, and they ask for $140k, I'm not going to say "that's unacceptable, would you take $200k?"
And so is treating people like people instead of like expenses which are to be minimized.
I think we can agree salary (expense) isn't the totality of how an employee is "treated".
Posted on 9/7/22 at 1:58 am to TutHillTiger
quote:Yes! Absolutely!
I assume you mean “you” figuratively,
quote:
I made my money the only fashion way by working my arse off and getting a a shitload of education
Posted on 9/7/22 at 2:06 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
And so is treating people like people instead of like expenses which are to be minimized.
...
quote:
Seemed to imply that employees should be overpaid by some measure.
You could clear the grand canyon with this leap.
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