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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:02 am to
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:02 am to
Are the Russians not mechanized there? It would be a disaster for them to lose Kherson but im not yet seeing where they couldn't retreat relatively easily to the east.

I could easily be wrong. I'm no expert on the Kherson front but it just seems that an orderly withdrawal would be quite likely.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16226 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:03 am to
Ukraine has been massing an army between Odesa and Kherson. Until recently their strongest attacks have been further north on the southern front, wehre they have a bridgehead over a small river. Ukraine has been far more successful at establishing pontoon bridge crossing than Russia. Russia did blow tht bridge up a few time, but a new one was built almost immediately while troops in the bridgehead held their gained ground.

Russ has prepared defense all along the western front, lots of tanks dug in, which could be what all the T-62's brought from training are being used for, by the trainload.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:04 am to
TBH the initiative seems to have shifted since HIMARS became operational.part of that is Russia's offensive running out of gas or reaching it's planned endpoint, however you want to look at it. But the Russians do seem to be panicking s bit at their sudden vulnerability. If Ukraine did indeed wipe out the command elements of two Russian divisions on the Kherson front maybe they've really got something going on there.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:08 am to
So you are saying lots of Russians are to the west/left of the river north of kherson? They are basically stuck on the wrong side of the river then.

If so I understand your position.

From sources ive read though Ukrainian forces have struggled hard to maintain a bridgehead across the Dnieper north of Kherson. That led me to believe no Russians except in and around Kherson proper were left/west of the river.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16226 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:08 am to
Ukrainians, trained, which may include those fighting in the East and Kharkiv areas. They never had weapons before. Foreign fighters are bringing some of their personal gear then there were a lot of captured weapons from Russians at the northern thrust to Kyiv

Not sure when Zelenskyy thinks that he will have 1 million, but who knows how much of that message is meant for Putin or the West.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:10 am to
quote:


Russ has prepared defense all along the western front, lots of tanks dug in, which could be what all the T-62's brought from training are being used for, by the trainload.


Again, this is where HIMARS comes in. Air defense is one of their target priorities, which allows the drones to fly again and direct artillery onto these fixed targets.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:15 am to
Where did you hear they wiped out the Kherson front command structure?

I'm not suggesting you are wrong at all. You have more info than me.

Right now ISW which I receive as the Ukraine propaganda is suggesting incremental gains at best. Though I've read about Russian telegram and other social media outlets expressing concern about the stability of the Kershon front?

Guys the possibilities if a Kherson breakthrough are enormous. Russia would have to split whatever its reserves are to protect the Crimean neck or the soft underbelly of the donbas front. It would he calamitous
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:19 am to
Yeah that sounds good but I just find it near impossible for Ukraine to be able wield such a massive force. I bet 90% are suited at best for city siege operations.

What everyone wants to know is what Ukraine has left as a striking force.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:29 am to
I agree with your assessment. This next month will tell all.

As I mentioned before though I think the Russian AF has been tentative and any major Ukarainian offensive will require a full RAF response. I think if the Russians used up their AF they could get their Bear (b-52) equivalents in to follow a swift strike from their electronics jamming and anti Sam fighters. They'd lose a lot more than they are willing at this point. But they have the capability of sacrificing fighters for bombers and could decimate any major Ukrainian attacking force
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:30 am to
quote:

Where did you hear they wiped out the Kherson front command structure?


One of the Twitter accounts I follow,maybe Rob James or Trent Telenko, referencing chatter from Russian milbloggers on Telegram that Ukraine hit the HQ of the 20th Motor Rifle and 106th VDV divisions, with heavy casualties.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:32 am to
They have scores of Tu-22 backfires too. Between the Bear, Blackjack and and Backfire, if they can suppress with SAM fire with fighters they could destroy any mobile column
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:37 am to
Russia has to consider how many of these strategic assets they want to use up. With sanctions and the general disarray of the Russian aerospace industry, they won't be replaced in the foreseeable future. A bomber lost over Ukraine is a bomber unavailable for a confrontation with the US, China, Poland, the list goes on. Russia has a lot of potential enemies and a knack for reminding the world it can't be trusted.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:41 am to
That from the Kherson front?

My main point is this. The Russians have thrown in their best army units. Amazingly they have failed.

But they haven't tried to overwhelm Ukraine with their air force. I've gotten the impression that each mig or suckhoi shot down would be an embarrassment.

I think from what I've gathered Ukrainian airspace is titled to the Russians. If Russia had to stop an offensive it could from the air. I may be way off base. But they are worried about losses. Imagine if one tu-160 went down? Of course they fkrw missiles from 600 miles away but they along with a massive strike of their Bears could destroy any Ukrainian offensive
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:46 am to
To me their only other use for their strategic bomber fleet is against the US. Between the Bear, Blackjack and Backfire they've got roughly the same numbers as B-52s, B-2s and B-1s.

But if swarmed ahead of time by hundreds of fighters as cannon fodder they could carpet bomb a Ukrainian position
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:46 am to
Yes, Kherson
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:51 am to
China is their mortal threat and will he before they remember it but if the state of Putin's regime is threatened by a Ukrainian offensive I have little doubt that scores of fighters and fighter bombers could overwhelm their limited SAM resources to allow the bombers through. Of course this is a scenario where the Russians are desperate enough to do this. They've been content to fire away 60s era missiles so far and feel that's sufficient.

And it has been. If Ukraine can't retake Kherson and the meat grinder continues unabated then all is lost
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105543 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:52 am to
But could they hit mobile targets, or even static positions like logistics and transportation hubs? They seem to have used up most of their precision weapons already. And I wonder if they have the balls to go in hard on an objective where they know some of them won't come back. They haven't shown much esprit de corps, not to mention flying ability, so far.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 12:57 am to
Yeah we nearly ran out of precision guidance missiles and bombs during Desert Storm.

Hearing reliable sources say they are using "Kitchen" anti carrier missiles against military targets. 60s era missiles.

No what meant was if Ukraine had some massive stroke force (which they dont) of hundreds of thousands, they'd just carpet bomb them like we have done before.
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 1:01 am to
Strike force, excuse me. If it came down to precision strikes the Russians must be holding back half of their arsenal. But if some mass Ukraine column appeared a hundred fighters could overwhelm their defenses and the heavy bombers could drop dumb bombs to great use
Posted by Shreveportolewarskul
Member since Jan 2022
110 posts
Posted on 7/13/22 at 1:20 am to
I agree. They've shown no confident assertiveness through the air. All I'm saying is that if there was some massed Ukrainian strike force (which I doubt exists) their satellites would pick it up and they could swarm Ukraininan SAMs with drones and worthless 3rd generation fkghters and follow through immediately with what's left of their precision munitions or use the bombers to carpet bomb. They'd lose probably more than Putin dares to gamble.

But Ukraine posseses no massive mobile ground army besides. I'm just hoping for one breakthrough, perhaps at Kherson. That would force all Russian reserves away from the Donbass. It would seal the stalemate and Ukraine's sovereignty.

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