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Started By
Message
re: Kurt Cobain would have been 57 today (Feb 20)
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:38 pm to Honest Tune
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:38 pm to Honest Tune
quote:I'm not sure why a direct comparison with Metallica is even all that relevant. They were already a decade and four albums into their career with an already sizable fan base when they released the Black album. If you are going to do a direct comparison, it makes more sense to compare the sales and cultural impact of their respective second albums, Nevermind and Ride the Lightening than to compare an established act that was already playing arenas and stadiums before they released their album vs a band that was mostly unknown a few months before they knocked Micheal Jackson out of #1.
I don’t think it’s even a debate, but you’re welcome to present your case for why Nirvana was bigger worldwide in the early 90s than Metallica.
1
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:40 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Again, Nirvana is a good not great band whose influence on music is ridiculously overblown because of Cobain's death. It's that simple.
other than that whole being credited with that while Kurt was still alive.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:45 pm to Honest Tune
quote:
I’ve never gotten a good answer “why” when people say this.
Because it wasn't pure thrash metal and appealed to a wider audience. I'm not a hater of it, but that's why. It's a huge jump from AJFA to TBA. And you have to remember there was no internet, no news back then. You maybe heard about them once every few months. Then TBA drops and you're still jamming AJFA and Nothing Else Matters starts. It's a bit of a shock.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:49 pm to Honest Tune
quote:
For the record I really like both bands, but Metallica was a much larger draw in the early 90s.
It's not even close. Metallica was a machine in those days and Nirvana was just getting used to playing venues that weren't dives and music halls.
I loved Nirvana before I loved Metallica, but they never had a chance to reach the level of Metallica. They're just two entirely different bands and mindsets. Even had Kurt lived, they wouldn't have reached that level.
On the main theme of the thread, I do agree that in a way Nirvana gets more attention since Kurt died, but I still think he was an amazing songwriter and innovator. There's a good chance he went the Layne Staley route if he didn't kill himself.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:51 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
I'm not sure why a direct comparison with Metallica is even all that relevant. They were already a decade and four albums into their career with an already sizable fan base when they released the Black album. If you are going to do a direct comparison, it makes more sense to compare the sales and cultural impact of their respective second albums, Nevermind and Ride the Lightening than to compare an established act that was already playing arenas and stadiums before they released their album vs a band that was mostly unknown a few months before they knocked Micheal Jackson out of #1.
I offered Metallica as an example of a band that was bigger than Nirvana in the early 90s because of this post…
Posted on 2/21/24 at 4:56 pm to Honest Tune
Nirvana got a huge boost from MTV and radio that Metallica didn't get at that stage of their career. Nevermind is really poppy in it's own way. Anyone saying they were bigger than Metallica isn't correct IMO. They did explode huge overnight, but they were still a level below Metallica.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:06 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
It’s a great album and not underrated at all. It’s very highly rated.
Not to the level that people swoon over Nirvana.
That was my point.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:08 pm to JamesVinson
quote:
Nirvana got a huge boost from MTV and radio that Metallica didn't get at that stage of their career. Nevermind is really poppy in it's own way. Anyone saying they were bigger than Metallica isn't correct IMO. They did explode huge overnight, but they were still a level below Metallica.
Yea that’s all I was saying… Metallica was worldwide HUGE in the early 90s.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:14 pm to Honest Tune
Still are really.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:23 pm to JamesVinson
quote:Yeah, I would never claim that Metallica wasn't a bigger band but I do think Nevermind had a wider impact on rock music and pop culture than Black, primarily because of the average age of their fan bases. A sizable chunk of Metallica fans were already pushing or over 30 while Nirvana's fan base was mostly college age or below, and like it or not, that's the demographic that moves pop culture.
Nirvana got a huge boost from MTV and radio that Metallica didn't get at that stage of their career. Nevermind is really poppy in it's own way. Anyone saying they were bigger than Metallica isn't correct IMO. They did explode huge overnight, but they were still a level below Metallica
Not to say Black wasn't huge with kids, it was, but not to the level of Nevermind.
Eta- side note, just walked into work and Wherever I May Roam is playing so another point to the Black album
This post was edited on 2/21/24 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:27 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Yeah, I would never claim that Metallica wasn't a bigger band but I do think Nevermind had a wider impact on rock music and pop culture than Black, primarily because of the average age of their fan bases. A sizable chunk of Metallica fans were already pushing or over 30 while Nirvana's fan base was mostly college age or below, and like it or not, that's the demographic that moves pop culture.
Not to say Black wasn't huge with kids, it was, but not to the level of Nevermind.
I agree with that. Nirvana just blew the whole Seattle scene wide open.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 5:29 pm to JamesVinson
Deservedly so… that scene was the most creative real estate in the world for a few years. It HAD to bust out.
Posted on 2/21/24 at 10:11 pm to Honest Tune
quote:
I offered Metallica as an example of a band that was bigger than Nirvana in the early 90s because of this post…
ok, so change my post from "the" to "one of the"
the point of the post is that they were freaking HUGE, influential, and Kurt was being called "the voice of a generation" before he died.
none of those labels were given to them because he died.
they had them when he was still very much alive.
their Unplugged set on MTV was widely regarded as one of, if not the best on that show when Kurt was still alive (Alice in Chains didn't record theirs until a couple years later, so wasn't in the discussion yet).
Posted on 2/21/24 at 10:39 pm to JamesVinson
quote:This. It might not be the answer some fans want to hear but it is the answer. I think the Black album is a good, probably great, rock album, but it signaled the beginning of a different band. Nothing wrong with that, artists absolutely should evolve. This just happened to be a case of a band evolving away from what a large part of their existing audience were interested in listening to.
Because it wasn't pure thrash metal and appealed to a wider audience. I'm not a hater of it, but that's why. It's a huge jump from AJFA to TBA. And you have to remember there was no internet, no news back then. You maybe heard about them once every few months. Then TBA drops and you're still jamming AJFA and Nothing Else Matters starts. It's a bit of a shock.
Ultimately, it was a great move for them. But it signaled a new direction that a lot of thrash fans simply weren't interested in musically, never mind their sudden acceptance and prominent presence on MTV and awards shows, which was jarring to a lot of thrash fans that actively disdained those types of things.
Again, great move for them, and you can't fault them for evolving their sound, but you also can't fault fans that didn't care to follow them into a style that was different, and in many ways antithetical, to the music they enjoyed.
I count myself as one of them. Although, I think Black was a damned good album, I haven't listened to it in 25+ years, while RtL through Justice still get regular play.
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