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re: Just Saw EV CAR on a tow truck getting charged at a charging station
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:00 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:00 pm to Korkstand
quote:
You clearly haven't considered how many use-cases EVs are better for. A lot, a LOT, of fleet pickups never haul more than a few hundred pounds and never leave a 100 mile radius of HQ, and go 50k+ miles per year. EV pickups are going to be very popular very soon.
You are 100% correct...they are going to be practical for that purpose with the caveat that their carrying only a couple of hundred miles means that an EV with a much lower capacity and much lower purchase / operating costs would be even more practical. That is not what the market is, however, it is a market that is competing with 1/2 ton trucks that are used on the weekend to haul a boat to a lake 4 times further from the house than a full charge would allow the EV to haul the boat...and it is less than 80 miles one way (the data is readily available). EVs are being designed and marketed to compete with ICE Vehicles, not to fill a niche market which most certainly exists.
UPS and Amazon are GREAT examples. They have a fleet of the things and it is very practical...their costs are far more manageable and predictable. They also have the electrical service at their bases of operation to have the charging capacity to do what they have done. It is fantastic.
It is not practical for a 110 pound woman, by herself, to be tooling along in a vehicle capable of towing 10,000 pounds that requires as much electricity as an electric range being cranked up to high on all burners for 7 hours and doing 80 MPH on the highway to get to work. Anyone suggesting it is is simply ignorant or stupid...
If a person wants to buy one god bless and god speed. You do you boo....but in order for you to do you there is no need to justify it to anyone...just do you and damn the cost and impracticality. I own a boat. We all do stupid shite. If buying an EV is the dumbest thing a person does they are doing good. But trying to convince folks it aint stupid is, well, stupid....
3
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:04 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
market that is competing with 1/2 ton trucks that are used on the weekend to haul a boat to a lake
You do realize this is less than 25% of the truck market right?
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:05 pm to Bow dude72
quote:
J.D. Power quoted Elon Musk saying in 2019 that it could cost $5,000 to $10,000 to replace a Tesla battery but added that the figures were different in 2023. Recurrent, which reports on EV battery health, said battery replacement could cost anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:08 pm to cyogi
How often do you think you're replacing the battery?
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:37 pm to billjamin
quote:
Easier to just not be a complete fricking idiot and run out of juice.
This. Nearly 30 years of driving and haven't ever had this issue. Not once.
People want to try and push to the last drop for unknown reasons.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:50 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:So, they're practical for a shite ton of people considering how they use their vehicles.
EVs are "practical" as commuters and for anyone who is willing to limit their range to less than 300 miles
quote:10-15 minutes
without a substantial period (30 minutes or so) of charging time
quote:It's cheaper to charge than get gas, by a rather large margin. I don't think I've ever spent more than $13 on a charge.
at what would amount to the price of a tank of gas
quote:Tesla ftw. All the total cost of ownership data points always show the Tesla is $1000s cheaper than any similar priced non-EV, and Teslas are one of the top cars in terms of resale value.
A good example is the Hyundai Ionic. Lowest priced EV on the market as of August. Has a standard range of about 270 miles but actualy range at 70 MPH is, according to several testing sites, about 230 miles (the same is true of rated fuel mileage, very few people get what the manufcaturer claims). That car has a sticker price of around $40K and you can get in one for around $45K. All the data suggests that the cost of ownership for that car would be about 170% of the cost of ownership of a ICE Toyota Camry. And when the Camry has 250K miles on it you can sell it for $10K. When the Hyunadai has about 100K on it you can pay a junkyard about $2500 to take it off your hands
quote:I've never looked at that for non-Teslas because I can't really figure out any reasons why anyone would ever buy a non-Tesla if some of the things you mentioned truly matter. Because if it does, Tesla will beat out every other vehicle easily. Obviously, I get if someone just really wants the Hummer EV and can afford it, go for it. But your post being based on what is practical, the Tesla will beat out any other EV very easily and specifically based on the things you mentioned in your post, the Tesla will also beat out any similar vehicle in its class and similarly priced vehicles.
These are real world figures that have been reported by manufacturers if you will take the time to do the research. It is not practical.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:51 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:Musk/Tesla showed that the way to succeed in this market is to start in the premium range then work down. That's the way to get money flowing into R&D to bring costs down and capabilities up. It's working.
You are 100% correct...they are going to be practical for that purpose with the caveat that their carrying only a couple of hundred miles means that an EV with a much lower capacity and much lower purchase / operating costs would be even more practical. That is not what the market is, however, it is a market that is competing with 1/2 ton trucks that are used on the weekend to haul a boat to a lake 4 times further from the house than a full charge would allow the EV to haul the boat...and it is less than 80 miles one way (the data is readily available). EVs are being designed and marketed to compete with ICE Vehicles, not to fill a niche market which most certainly exists.
quote:I don't know what the power requirements or highway speeds have to do with anything, but I would love it if my wife or daughter never had to stop at a gas station or worry about oil changes.
It is not practical for a 110 pound woman, by herself, to be tooling along in a vehicle capable of towing 10,000 pounds that requires as much electricity as an electric range being cranked up to high on all burners for 7 hours and doing 80 MPH on the highway to get to work. Anyone suggesting it is is simply ignorant or stupid...
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:54 pm to notsince98
quote:I think it's like 3 miles per hour, not very good.
If you had to guess, how many miles of charge per hour can you get from a 120v outlet?
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:56 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:Neither is that same woman driving around in a Ford Excursion, but they do.
It is not practical for a 110 pound woman, by herself, to be tooling along in a vehicle capable of towing 10,000 pounds that requires as much electricity as an electric range being cranked up to high on all burners for 7 hours and doing 80 MPH on the highway to get to work. Anyone suggesting it is is simply ignorant or stupid...
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:56 pm to billjamin
quote:Every 5 years according to the OT!!!
How often do you think you're replacing the battery?
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:58 pm to deltaland
quote:
There isn’t a charging station within 80 miles of here
Tf do you live, dude?
quote:
Mississippi St. Fan
Oh.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:00 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:So much wrong here.
2012 and 4 million units later is about what, 1/100000th of the amount of data available on ICE vehicles being used in exactly the same manner as the EV in question?
According to Edmunds, Car and Driver and Consumer Reports that 2012 S model cost its owner almost 5 times what a toyota camry owner spent to own that car since 2012. There are currentl7 198 Camries that vintage for sell in the US with the highest mileage being a little under 400K miles and the average being a little over 200K. There are 10 model s's for sell that vintage with the highest mileage being 117K miles and the average being somewhere around 45K. Per mileage the Model S owners paid about 20 times what the Camry drivers paid. The difference 11 years later is not much....it is not practical.
First, the venn diagram of people shopping for camry's and people shopping for model S's is two distinct circles. This says absolutely dick about EVs, you are just describing the TCO difference between $30k cars and $100k cars.
Second, your math analysis is bunk as frick. It makes zero sense whatsoever, and if you think it does then I don't think it's worth continuing this conversation with you. You can't compare the per-mile cost of a car with 50k miles to one with 200k miles. Pick two cars with the same mileage. This is a really basic bit of logic that you've completely failed at, and it explains why the rest of your thoughts are shite.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:00 pm to billjamin
quote:
How are are you accounting for lower O&M expense? And why do you insist on comparing a luxury full size car to the bottom of the barrel Camry? At least make an apples to apples comparison.
Because that was the model the poster I was responding to mentioned. And while some folks may consider a S model a luxury vehicle they are no more luxurious than a run of the mill Camry...
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:02 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
good example is the Hyundai Ionic. Lowest priced EV on the market as of August.
Well, you started off completely wrong here, so not much hope for the rest of your argument.....
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:05 pm to billjamin
quote:
quote:
they have almost as much practical application as an electric 1/2 ton pickup truck.
3/4 of trucks sold tow/haul 0-1 times per year.
No doubt...but if it is one time the Lightning buyer is going to have to lease or pay someone to do it for them...unless the trip is 20 miles and they have 10 hours to recharge for the trip back home.
Working with a fleet of lightnings the last 6 months. Not a single person driving one would purchase one...Ford did several surveys asking the users LOL. Also have a fleet of Silverados....almost everyone driving one of those also owns one LOL. It just is not practical. Again, if you want one buy one...I own a boat. Bad financial decisions are the American way....but don't try to justify it by pretending it makes financial sense because it just doesn't, no more so than paying $3K for Taylor Swift Tickets....
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:06 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt?
A good example is the Hyundai Ionic. Lowest priced EV on the market as of August.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:08 pm to shel311
quote:
quote:
EVs are "practical" as commuters and for anyone who is willing to limit their range to less than 300 miles
So, they're practical for a shite ton of people considering how they use their vehicles
Absolutely...except most of that shite ton of people will also go on a road trip a couple of times a year which would exceed the capacity of the EV and therefore would have to own 2 vehicles to do what one can or rent one....either way they ain't saving money, they are wasting money.
If you are brand loyal to Tesla my friend you do you boo...but it is not coming from a sound financial decision making process for most drivers. No doubt there are some but nowhere near as many as have bought them....
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:09 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
while some folks may consider a S model a luxury vehicle they are no more luxurious than a run of the mill Camry
seriously?This post was edited on 10/16/23 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:10 pm to S1C EM
quote:There are zero locations in the lower 48 where this is true.quote:Tf do you live, dude?
There isn’t a charging station within 80 miles of here
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:13 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Working with a fleet of lightnings the last 6 months. Not a single person driving one would purchase one...Ford did several surveys asking the users LOL. Also have a fleet of Silverados....almost everyone driving one of those also owns one LOL.
I've worked with several fleets of both too and while all the guys driving them piss and moan, the company is seeing real savings and improvements in efficiency because they don't frick around at gas stations for an hour or leave an engine idling all day burning 100k in fuel a week on abusive idling. Let the hands whine all they want, their inefficiency costs consumers money.
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