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re: Is it impossible to travel to another solar system?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:37 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:37 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Cool. What exactly is this highway made of and how do we find it? What is paving these highways you speak of? This is an interesting theory that I've never heard of.
Our understanding of the physical and metaphysical universe is still in its infancy. Judging by discoveries over just the last lifetime, we've discovered "spooky action at a distance" (aka quantum entanglement), the ability to float relatively massive objects with vibration, etc. (I'm at work and can't google all the cool stuff to use as examples) There are forces and manipulations of those forces that we aren't even close to discovering yet. Maybe we'll be a new species by the time it's perfected.
I don't know if there's currently a theory about what I said, but by reason alone it makes sense to me.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 1:39 pm
1
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:37 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
A few pages ago I said to pull, not to push.
Yes you did and I have been waiting for some elaboration ever since.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:39 pm to Breesus
quote:If you subscribe to that particular theory, it correlates closely with the concept of energy conservation.
Are you trying to say that the sun does not provide visible light to the moon anywhere except through the reflection off the moons surface?
Upon striking a medium, the sun's emissions would devlove into different forms of energy (and maybe only the electromagnetic portion): light, heat, etc.
Just like the colors produced by a prism are difractions of white light.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:39 pm to panterica
quote:
Maybe we'll be a new species by the time it's perfected.
How long have we got on this planet before we are wiped out? This is my central question. Do you all believe we will develop the means to leave before we are destroyed?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:40 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Yes you did and I have been waiting for some elaboration ever since.
To push is to work like a rocket. It shoots fire out the back in order to expand the space behind it. If you can contract the space in front of you, then you are effectively "pulling" yourself through space.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:42 pm to DanTiger
quote:
How long have we got on this planet before we are wiped out? This is my central question. Do you all believe we will develop the means to leave before we are destroyed?
There's no telling. And it's best that we don't know. Just keep moving forward as best as we can. If we get wiped out, then that's just what happens on this planet. Maybe remaining life will catch up again like it has before.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:43 pm to DanTiger
quote:Can't see the future. But we're a rather fragile species. If we make it another 5k-10k years... we may have a chance.
How long have we got on this planet before we are wiped out? This is my central question. Do you all believe we will develop the means to leave before we are destroyed?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:47 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Yes you did and I have been waiting for some elaboration ever since.
Oh, I'm not smart enough for all that. I just know that conventional rocketry isn't going to get us very far.
I think gravitational forces might be in play... sort of like how Apollo missions used the moon's gravity to slingshot them around and back toward earth, except with someone (black hole maybe?) that has a shite-ton more gravity to it.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:47 pm to Breesus
quote:
empty space
A highway made of nothing? Interesting
quote:
technology not yet invented
I'd like a more specific answer but I suppose this is the best I can expect.
quote:
Natural forces of gravity
What about interstellar space where there is really not much of anything to exert any gravitational force? For example our star (which is very average) really only exerts any gravitational pull to speak of in the space roughly one light year around it (look up Oort Cloud). The nearest start to us is I believe something like 4 light years away. Between those two places there is not much gravitational force of any kind to speak of. That being the case, how can this "highway" use natural forces of gravity for interstellar space?
quote:
Do you know anything about science?
Yes. Do you?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:49 pm to Mahootney
quote:
If you subscribe to that particular theory
It seems his theory is based on the fact that you can't see photons in a dark vacuum when they're not reflected on an object, so therefor they don't exist. He spouts credible scientific jargon, but that's such a weak basis for a theory. Plus he can't even get "then" and "than" right. Dude needs to lay off the weed for a few months and rethink things.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:49 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
No, I was countering the nonsensical theory that the sun cannot be seen from "outer space" and further, that, because it has no atmosphere, observing the sun, from the moon, would be equivalent to observing it from other places in the solar system (not on Earth or in any sort of atmosphere), with the only exception being, you would have some interference from the glare the sun produces on the moon's surface.
If the sun really can't be seen from space, and the sun is just a normal typical star like gabillions of others out there, then how does the Hubble telescope, out in space) photograph all of them?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:53 pm to panterica
quote:What I think he's referring to is a very complicated concept regarding manipulation of space-time. Basically, instead of moving us to somewhere... we move somewhere to us.
To push is to work like a rocket. It shoots fire out the back in order to expand the space behind it. If you can contract the space in front of you, then you are effectively "pulling" yourself through space.
Use the garden hose example to demonstrate. You stand holdong onto one end while someone stands holding the other.
If you try to move "your end" by shaking it up and down to create waves, the force on the other end is minimal despite a great amount of energy exerted.
Now, same experiment, but you make the hose tight... and simply pull on it. The other person will have to move towards you like in a game of tug of war where the other person doesn't try.
Minimal energy effort, great force.
Manipulation of space-time is far more practical than trying to Apollo-11 to other Galaxies.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:56 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
A highway made of nothing? Interesting
I smell confirmation bias around here. Are you still imagining pavement? Maybe my analogy was too simple, but this discussion would get boring and quiet real fast if we abandoned layman's terms.
Gravity may not be the key, but it is a force that connects objects through a vacuum. It does so by warping the fabric of spacetime. That fabric of spacetime may possibly be able to be manipulated in ways we haven't even imagined yet.
quote:
I'd like a more specific answer but I suppose this is the best I can expect.
Are you expecting someone to say it's technologically possible right now? You know better than that.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:56 pm to panterica
quote:
To push is to work like a rocket. It shoots fire out the back in order to expand the space behind it. If you can contract the space in front of you, then you are effectively "pulling" yourself through space.
I posted one of the theorized side effects of what your proposing. Here it is again....
quote:
Damaging effect on destination
Brendan McMonigal, Geraint F. Lewis, and Philip O'Byrne have argued that when an Alcubierre-driven ship decelerates from superluminal speed, the particles that its bubble has gathered in transit would be released in energetic outbursts akin to a sonic boom shockwave; in the case of forward-facing particles, energetic enough to destroy anything at the destination directly in front of the ship
There was more to the post about what would be faced when trying to bend space time. A few of highlights ....
quote:
For example, the energy equivalent of -1064 kg might be required[17] to transport a small spaceship across the Milky Way galaxy—an amount orders of magnitude greater than the estimated mass of the observable universe.
In 2012, physicist Harold White and collaborators announced that modifying the geometry of exotic matter could reduce the mass–energy requirements for a macroscopic space ship from the equivalent of the planet Jupiter to that of the Voyager 1 spacecraft
Krasnikov proposed that if tachyonic matter cannot be found or used, then a solution might be to arrange for masses along the path of the vessel to be set in motion in such a way that the required field was produced. But in this case, the Alcubierre drive vessel can only travel routes that, like a railroad, have first been equipped with the necessary infrastructure. The pilot inside the bubble is causally disconnected with its walls and cannot carry out any action outside the bubble: the bubble cannot be used for the first trip to a distant star because the pilot cannot place infrastructure ahead of the bubble while "in transit". For example, travelling to Vega (which is 25 light-years from the Earth) requires arranging everything so that the bubble moving toward Vega with a superluminal velocity
Coule has argued that schemes, such as the one proposed by Alcubierre, are infeasible because matter placed en route of the intended path of a craft must be placed at superluminal speed—that constructing an Alcubierre drive requires an Alcubierre drive even if the metric that allows it is physically meaningful.
crew members could not control, steer or stop the ship because the ship could not send signals to the front of the bubble
The amount of negative energy required for such a propulsion is not yet known. Pfenning and Allen Everett of Tufts hold that a warp bubble traveling at 10 times light-speed must have a wall thickness of no more than 10-32 meters—close to the limiting Planck length, 1.6 × 10-35 meters. A bubble macroscopically large enough to enclose a ship of 200 meters would require a total amount of exotic matter equal to 10 billion times the mass of the observable universe
Posted on 4/8/14 at 1:59 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
It's not a lack of faith in humanity on my part that gives me the opinion it's impossible to either travel the speed of light or warp time space itself. Like I've said, I'd love it if we could do these things. But I'm a realist, it's not just a matter of technology limitations that we're talking about. The very things that it would take to do what is being proposed here (bending space time to allow interstellar travel for humans) are according to the laws of physics, simply impossible for us to do and furthermore impossible for anyone to even survive the process if we figured out how to do it.
It was realists who thought man would never harness the power of lightning or the atom, would never fly, and would never walk on the moon. The dreamers made all of that happen.
Atomic bombs produce as much energy with a few pounds of material as tens of millions of pounds of TNT. How much further could we go with antimatter as far as energy density is concerned? It has been estimated that "one milligram would be enough to send a probe to Pluto and back in a year". Right now, it takes a very, very long time and a whole lot of energy to produce even that much, but technology inevitably marches forward.
The universe still has a lot of secrets, but I have faith in the dreamers that we will figure out a lot of them pretty soon.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 2:00 pm to panterica
quote:Once again, NOT my theory. I'm just trying to understand and explain how it would work "if this phenomenon exists".... nothing more.
It seems his theory is based on the fact that you can't see photons in a dark vacuum when they're not reflected on an object, so therefor they don't exist. He spouts credible scientific jargon, but that's such a weak basis for a theory. Plus he can't even get "then" and "than" right. Dude needs to lay off the weed for a few months and rethink things.
- Then is mainly an adverb, often used to situate actions in time.
- Than is a conjunction used mainly in making comparisons.
I apologize if I didn't double check my posts.
Clearly my vocabulary is insufficient to know the difference.
And, I don't do drugs.... but how would that be relevant?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 2:00 pm to panterica
quote:
Gravity may not be the key, but it is a force that connects objects through a vacuum. It does so by warping the fabric of spacetime. That fabric of spacetime may possibly be able to be manipulated in ways we haven't even imagined yet.
Perhaps but since we're talking about an interstellar highway powered by gravity, I feel compelled to point out that one thing that there is very little of in interstellar space is gravity. Yes there is some gravity in interstellar space, hell even galaxies exert gravity on other galaxies to a degree, but there is not enough there to give the type of power to do what is being proposed in this thread.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 2:02 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Now, same experiment, but you make the hose tight... and simply pull on it.
As long as that garden hose represents the spacetime in front of you, then that's basically what I described. You are reducing the spacetime in front of you. Except in that experiment, the puller is probably dropping the slack on the ground. It has to go somewhere without destroying everything in the puller's spot, so it would just have to be displaced behind you.
Unless if you're transporting something towards yourself like that Star Trek beam. Either way, I'm sure you'd have to be the puller.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 2:03 pm to panterica
quote:Oh. I know you get it.
As long as that garden hose represents the spacetime in front of you, then that's basically what I described. You are reducing the spacetime in front of you. Except in that experiment, the puller is probably dropping the slack on the ground. It has to go somewhere without destroying everything in the puller's spot, so it would just have to be displaced behind you.
Unless if you're transporting something towards yourself like that Star Trek beam. Either way, I'm sure you'd have to be the puller.
I was just using a simple analogy to explain the push/pull phenomenon and practicality to everyone else.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 2:04 pm to Mahootney
quote:
I apologize if I didn't double check my posts.
No no no, I was reading a link of a guy proposing that theory. Some hippy looking dude preaching it.
But if that's your blog I read, then I apologize.
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