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re: Is it impossible to travel to another solar system?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 3:51 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 4/8/14 at 3:51 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:It's conflict with Quantum physics is a direct indictment that at a minimum it's incomplete.
As soon as it's proven the theory of relativity is wrong, I'll cast it aside.
Therefore limiting the future possibility of space-time travel to the bounds of a flawed mathematical model is quite intellectually dishonest.
Since we're asking for links, you got one for an experiment to prove this?
quote:
As an object approaches the speed of light, its mass rises precipitously. If an object tries to travel 186,000 miles per second, its mass becomes infinite, and so does the energy required to move it. For this reason, no normal object can travel as fast or faster than the speed of light.
quote:I can see that your imagination and ability to extrapolate are bound by your current bias and reality.
You're talking waves, not normal objects with mass. Basically apples and oranges in this instance. But for the sake of the debate... link?
I wonder what people from 1900 would think about our current computers and smartphones.
Relativity and Quantum are described as apples and oranges too.
Under Canadian Patent 142,352 -
"Improvement in the Art of Transmitting Electrical Energy Through the Natural Mediums"
It's really is a good read.
Just because everyone believes the earth is flat... doesn't make it so.
If relativity really was flawless, there wouldn't be descrepencies with quantaum physics.
2
Posted on 4/8/14 at 3:56 pm to panterica
quote:I've always loved quantum physics.
I have a feeling that studies in vibrations/spins/frequencies might lead to pretty crazy advancements in the future. Matter and forces like gravity start to act much differently when you manipulate those things in the right way. Even on a large scale.
I'm really glad that we're doing pure experimental research.
We learn so much more when we experiment, find results, and then try to explain what we see....
rather than try to conduct experiments to prove a mathematical theorum.
There's so much regarding universe mechanics that are still just best guesses by smart people.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:01 pm to Mahootney
quote:
If relativity really was flawless, there wouldn't be descrepencies with quantaum physics.
To be fair, quantum physics is brand new and still trying to figure its own self out. Its experiments and rationale coexist just fine with relativity for the most part.. just with a few curious exceptions that aren't fully understood yet.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:09 pm to Mahootney
quote:
It's conflict with Quantum physics is a direct indictment that at a minimum it's incomplete.
Therefore limiting the future possibility of space-time travel to the bounds of a flawed mathematical model is quite intellectually dishonest.
Since we're asking for links, you got one for an experiment to prove this?
That statement came from here....
LINK
and here's more on the matter from another source...
LINK
quote:
Trouble is, traveling close to the speed of light brings about other effects, too. In Natural Science, Edelstein and Edelstein point out that hydrogen in any craft cable of traveling at the speed of light would also prevent it from traveling at the speed of light. They explain:
Unfortunately, as spaceship velocities approach the speed of light, interstellar hydrogen H, although only present at a density of approximately 1.8 atoms/cm3, turns into intense radiation that would quickly kill passengers and destroy electronic instrumentation. In addition, the energy loss of ionizing radiation passing through the ship's hull represents an increasing heat load that necessitates large expenditures of energy to cool the ship.
In other words, travel close to the speed of light and you'll be bombarded with so much radiation that you kick the bucket. The knock-on effect is that even if it's possible to create a craft capable of traveling close the speed of light, it wouldn't be able to transport people.
Instead, there's a natural speed limit imposed by safe levels of radiation due to hydrogen, which means humans couldn't travel faster than half the speed of light unless they were willing to die almost immediately. Dammit
And more bad news for trying to travel at light speed
quote:
It turns out that bending the space-time continuum has its hazards. During faster-than-light travel, particles that come in contact with this Alcubierre bubble get trapped and accumulate in front it. Some particles can even enter the warp bubble. There is an aggregating effect here, the physicists found, so the longer the bubble travels, the more particles accumulate in front of it.
When the spacecraft is finally decelerated at its destination, that energy is released all at once with such high energy that virtually anything they come in contact with would be instantly destroyed. The particles that wormed their way inside the bubble could also threaten the spacecraft itself. This could be handy if your cruiser drops out of warp speed in the midst of an asteroid field, but it also means that if you dropped out of warp too close to your destination planet you could inadvertently wipe it off the interstellar map. Don't tell The Galactic Empire.
But all tihs is a moot point anyway since we'll never go the speed of light
quote:
The most powerful fuel source that humankind is ever likely to come across is hydrogen fusion, which can get a ship up to about 11% of light speed. A “Bussard ram scoop” could get you going arbitrarily fast by collecting fuel en route, but there’s very little of it to be had (it wouldn’t be called “space” if it was full), so your acceleration would be very slow. An anti-matter rocket could also get a ship going arbitrarily fast, but there are problems with anti matter: 1) where do you get it?, 2) you can’t ever touch it (it’s the most unstable, dangerous stuff possible), 3) to get up to 90% of light speed half of your ship would have to be matter/anti-matter fuel.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:13 pm to Darth_Vader
Is any of this experimental....
Or are we still just dealing with theoretical?
Or are we still just dealing with theoretical?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:18 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Is any of this experimental.
I've yet to encounter anything at the experimental stage to support interstellar space travel by either traveling at or beyond the speed of light or bending space time. Have you?
quote:
Or are we still just dealing with theoretical?
This whole thread has been discussion of theoretical things both pro and con. Are you saying there are those who have already begun excremental interstellar travel? If so, please share.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:22 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
When the spacecraft is finally decelerated at its destination, that energy is released all at once with such high energy that virtually anything they come in contact with would be instantly destroyed.
That would make for a pretty badass interstellar shotgun.
Travelling at up to light speed and 'propulsion' as we know it are out of the question for all intents and purposes. Finding a natural way for the universe to do the heavy lifting (and cutting out all the space between point A and B) is where it's at.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:27 pm to Darth_Vader
So you concede that the possibility exists for scientific discoveries in the future to invalidate your theoretical limitations on inter-stellar travel?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:48 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
In other words, travel close to the speed of light and you'll be bombarded with so much radiation that you kick the bucket. The knock-on effect is that even if it's possible to create a craft capable of traveling close the speed of light, it wouldn't be able to transport people.
Instead, there's a natural speed limit imposed by safe levels of radiation due to hydrogen, which means humans couldn't travel faster than half the speed of light unless they were willing to die almost immediately. Dammit
You don't need it to carry people, just the other end of the teleportation device.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:50 pm to Mahootney
quote:
So you concede that the possibility exists for scientific discoveries in the future to invalidate your theoretical limitations on inter-stellar travel?
I've said as much more than once here. My whole point as I've also said more than once is that
1. Traveling at the speed of light is impossible according to physics.
2. Using a Worm Hole or bending space time is also impossible according to physics.
Of course there could come a day where some mystery force or matter could make interstellar space travel possible. But this mystery futuristic interstellar travel method used will almost certainly not be either 1 or 2 above.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:52 pm to Darth_Vader
Unless of course our current understanding of physics is somewhat flawed. Which is very likely.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:53 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
You don't need it to carry people, just the other end of the teleportation device.
You know what will happen to that device as it reaches the speed of light, right?
Here, I'll post this for the third or fourth time...
quote:
As an object approaches the speed of light, its mass rises precipitously. If an object tries to travel 186,000 miles per second, its mass becomes infinite, and so does the energy required to move it. For this reason, no normal object can travel as fast or faster than the speed of light.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:54 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
1. Traveling at the speed of light is impossible according to physics.
2. Using a Worm Hole or bending space time is also impossible according to physics.
Maybe according to physics as we know it... but I'd like to think of that as the tip of the iceberg.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 4:55 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Unless of course our current understanding of physics is somewhat flawed. Which is very likely.
But until I see something that supports that not only is our understanding wrong, that same mistake also means it's possible to either travel at the speed of light or bend space time, I've got to stick with current physics as it's understood today. That does not mean stop all exploration in the physics though.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 5:07 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Using a Worm Hole or bending space time is also impossible according to physics.
I asked before and didn't get a link. Can you link me to information about this law of physics that says bending spacetime is impossible? Because I'm pretty sure that the bending of spacetime is not only possible, but it's pretty much a necessity to our current understanding of physics.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 5:08 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Darth_Vader
Knows Humanity would annihilate the Galactic Empire if we ever found them so he's just trying to throw y'all off.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 5:26 pm to DanTiger
quote:
It is basically fact according to the Lorentz time dilation equation. Obviously in order to travel at light speed one must become light. I just don't see us getting there before we go extinct.
Yup. Even at light speed, it would take over four years to get to the nearest solar system to our own.
Even if our technological progression remained linear, which it probably won't for various reasons, it would take hundreds and hundreds of years of advancement to achieve near light speed.
Beyond light speed to go to other solar systems? The laws of physics may make that impossible as we understand them currently. We don't know yet.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:06 pm to Scoop
New question. We are not ever going to accomplish interstellar travel. Decided that years ago. So new question..
Could we build a device, fusion bomb or more exotic means suchas creating a black hole or through antimatter, that could destroy the planet?
I'm not talking wipe out complex life. I'm talking cause earth to no longer exist as a planet. Like reduced to rocks, and ice in space type destruction.
Could we build a device, fusion bomb or more exotic means suchas creating a black hole or through antimatter, that could destroy the planet?
I'm not talking wipe out complex life. I'm talking cause earth to no longer exist as a planet. Like reduced to rocks, and ice in space type destruction.
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