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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:24 am to Lou Pai
quote:Analyzing something that didn't happen, regardless of its likelihood, is by definition speculation. I don't agree with her stance, but representing unprovable possibilities as certainties is illogical nonetheless.
Through the 20-20 hindsight of history, the notion that dropping the bombs saved far more Japanese lives than it ended is all but a certainty. Referring to this as speculation implies a connotation that is completely misleading. People have studied what the effects of a land invasion would be on both hundreds of thousands of American lives (which you seem to disregard as irrelevant for some reason) and millions of Japanese lives.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 12:26 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:29 am to Rich Kotite
quote:
Awesome, would love to drink a beer with that guy and hear his stories.
Well
As he is a hardcore southern Baptist, you'd have to settle for just hearing the stories.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 12:29 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:29 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
illogical
As is the garbage you spew. Anyone with half a brain could see what was coming with the fanatical Japs. But keep up with the "speculation" angle, i'm sure you are way smarter than people who lived back then.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:31 am to Breesus
Yes, seriously. He said im sitting in my living room QBing these events.. As if he was there himself 
Most people in here have probably read a few books and taken a few history classes... That's where most of the opinions in here are stemming from. It's funny that you think you understand the effects of atomic bombs by reading about it in your history class. Please expose yourself to a large amount of radiation and report back.
Telling me to STFU because we had young men dying in Europe was ridiculous. I mentioned that I've been there because it really does add to ones understanding of those events, far more than taking a history class ever would. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our fallen D-Day soldiers.
Breesus, I realize that you are upset that I said in the Millinials thread that it's sad for people in their mid twenties to be living with their parents, I didn't realize you'd get so butthurt. I hope random insults towards all females makes you feel better about living with your parents when I've been financially independent since I was 18
Goodnight
Most people in here have probably read a few books and taken a few history classes... That's where most of the opinions in here are stemming from. It's funny that you think you understand the effects of atomic bombs by reading about it in your history class. Please expose yourself to a large amount of radiation and report back.
Telling me to STFU because we had young men dying in Europe was ridiculous. I mentioned that I've been there because it really does add to ones understanding of those events, far more than taking a history class ever would. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our fallen D-Day soldiers.
Breesus, I realize that you are upset that I said in the Millinials thread that it's sad for people in their mid twenties to be living with their parents, I didn't realize you'd get so butthurt. I hope random insults towards all females makes you feel better about living with your parents when I've been financially independent since I was 18
Goodnight
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:32 am to Rich Kotite
You know "jap" is a hateful racist slang term, right?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:32 am to Breesus
quote:
As he is a hardcore southern Baptist, you'd have to settle for just hearing the stories.
Well maybe i can just sit around the corner and pound beers
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:34 am to Breesus
quote:
You know "jap" is a hateful racist slang term, right?
Always thought it was short for Japanese. Must be my white privilege.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:39 am to Pkin
quote:
It's funny that you think you understand the effects of atomic bombs by reading about it in your history class
I was making fun of you. You said you understood the sacrifice and thought processes of one of the most difficult decisions in history made by the minds of those who watched over and lived through Normandy because you went to a cemetery and a memorial.
quote:
I realize that you are upset that I said in the Millinials thread that it's sad for people in their mid twenties to be living with their parents, I didn't realize you'd get so butthurt.
I didn't know that was you and I don't remember what I posted in that thread. Glad i made an impression on you though. For the record, I haven't lived with my parents since my early 20s.
quote:
hope random insults towards all females makes you feel better about living with your parents when I've been financially independent since I was 18
Congrats on being a stripper?
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:40 am to Rich Kotite
I was just pointing it out. I saw you used it a few times and I know racist slurs get you banned here.
Don't want you to feel the banhammer without knowing why.
Don't want you to feel the banhammer without knowing why.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:40 am to buckeye_vol
I'm not going to argue semantics with you, but the word "speculation" has a specific connotation in the English language. In science, finance, etc. She framed it in that light to diminish others' claims.
All signs point to a land invasion of Japan as being one of the most destructive events in modern history. From the perspective of military planning (which has since been documented), it would be silly to claim that this isn't a near-certainty. There was an extreme incentive for the American leadership to have a very thorough understanding of this, and most historians who study this believe they had the right idea.
All signs point to a land invasion of Japan as being one of the most destructive events in modern history. From the perspective of military planning (which has since been documented), it would be silly to claim that this isn't a near-certainty. There was an extreme incentive for the American leadership to have a very thorough understanding of this, and most historians who study this believe they had the right idea.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:43 am to Rich Kotite
quote:I'm clearly not smarter than Truman or any of those great men that made these difficult decisions.
As is the garbage you spew. Anyone with half a brain could see what was coming with the fanatical Japs. But keep up with the "speculation" angle, i'm sure you are way smarter than people who lived back then.
I am, however, smart enough to know the difference between speculation and irrefutable and provable facts. Whether the decisions were BETTER OR WORSE than the alternative that DID NOT occur, is speculative, albeit with evidence that it was "lesser of evils" (i.e., better than the alternative).
I don't know what is so disagreeable about this basic logic. I'm not questioning the decision; I'm questioning the certainty of the alternative that never occurred--and maybe thankfully so.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 12:51 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:50 am to Lou Pai
quote:So you're not going to argue semantics, yet you continue to argue semantics?
I'm not going to argue semantics with you, but the word "speculation" has a specific connotation in the English language. In science, finance, etc. She framed it in that light to diminish others' claims.
quote:There are very few near-certainties in life; human behavior rarely falls into it.
it would be silly to claim that this isn't a near-certainty.
quote:Which I agree with, but I disagree with the salience of the outcome. It was a "lesser of two evils" decision; no need to make it more than that, post-hoc.
There was an extreme incentive for the American leadership to have a very thorough understanding of this, and most historians who study this believe they had the right idea.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:50 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
I'm questioning the certainty of the alternative
Well, I'm not. Everyone on both sides knew a mainland invasion of Japan would have resulted in catastrophic loss of life. And it wouldn't have been like a bomb drop, it would have been bloody butchery. I don't see why this is hard to understand just because it didn't happen.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:51 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
you're not going to argue semantics, yet you continue to argue semantics?
I laughed
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:54 am to Rich Kotite
quote:OK. But that's poor logic, regardless if it was most probable.
Well, I'm not
quote:Again. I believe this was the most likely.
I don't see why this is hard to understand just because it didn't happen.
I just dislike when people speak in certainties about things that are by their very nature, uncertain.
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 12:56 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:55 am to buckeye_vol
the only thing truly questionable about the use of the weapon was that the japanese had been discussing their surrender in early 1945. of course, these talks started with them wanting to keep the emperor and not have the an occupation force occupy their country but if you listen to japanese officials who were involved in the talks, some believe that they would have eventually agreed to an unconditional surrender due to the economic hardships that were being placed on the country. i dont think i agree with that opinion and i believe using the weapon was the right decision, but it is something to think about
This post was edited on 8/6/15 at 12:56 am
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:57 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
But that's poor logic
Sure thing, guy. Keep using your 2015 definition of "logic", i will trust the guys that actually lived through it. Agree to disagree.
Posted on 8/6/15 at 12:59 am to WestCoastAg
quote:I agree, but some seem to think that even thinking about alternative possibilities is hogwash.
i dont think i agree with that opinion and i believe using the weapon was the right decision, but it is something to think about
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