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re: In Landmark decision, Jury Finds Realtors Conspired to inflate Commissions|$1.8 B verdict
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:27 am to billjamin
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:27 am to billjamin
The only one forcing you to purchase an insurance policy is your lender, and rightfully so. There is no way to be 100% sure of ownership, even with the most diligent title examination money can buy. We've seen cases with deeds filed in authentic form (two witnesses and a notary) where the Seller's signature was a forgery.
What are we supposed to do? Call up every notary who signed an act in the chain of title and force them to produce photo ID's of the folks who signed in front of them? There are a million examples like this.
What are we supposed to do? Call up every notary who signed an act in the chain of title and force them to produce photo ID's of the folks who signed in front of them? There are a million examples like this.
2
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:28 am to billjamin
quote:
quote:
What if your seller is a scam artist that tried to sell the property to more than one person?
Thats what i'm paying the title company to validate.
Lol, buddy, you need to work on your reading comprehension. The title company has NO WAY of knowing what your seller did moments before walking into the door. You obviously don't know how the public records doctrine works. Yes, the title company will review the records and have any problems fixed prior to closing, but the public records cannot possibly reflect what took place the morning of your closing. If the seller fricks around and gets a lien placed on their property WHILE YOU"RE SITTING IN THE CLOSING, then you're fricked without title insurance.
quote:
quote:
The title company/attorney may have no way of knowing the seller had some shady notary execute a deed a few minutes before he came to the closing where you're buying.
Once again, i'm paying a professional attorney to handle this.
Please, explain to me how the attorney is supposed to know about this. Show your work. Is the attorney supposed to be following the seller for the entirety of the closing process?
quote:
I would love to see your reaction if your doctor made you take out a policy before surgery incase the equipment fricked up and refused to work until you bought it to cover his arse.
The doctor carries his own malpractice insurance and I can assure you, the cost of that is passed onto patients. This is how any business works. Same as if you pay a contractor to build you a house, he's not buying all the materials for you for free. You're paying for every bit of cost it takes to get that task done.
quote:
Yeah, we're covering their malpractice insurance in the price AND buying our own policy.
How can you not see how fricking retarded that is?
I've already explained it's not a malpractice policy. Can it cover an error by the attorney? Sure. One of many things.
All insurance is the same. If you think it's a scam, then don't get it. Roll the dice and see how it works out if something goes wrong.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:32 am to bricksandstones
quote:
The only one forcing you to purchase an insurance policy is your lender, and rightfully so.
Jesus fricking christ. I've answered this 3 times now. my lender DID NOT make me purchase it. No title company in Houston would transact unless we bought the insurance.
quote:I get it man. you want to provide a professional service and charge professional services fees with no liability. We all want that. Not all of us are lucky enough to have such a big lobby group behind us jam this shite down our throats. I'm happy you get to make money on it, but you can at least admit its fricked up and an outlier.
There is no way to be 100% sure of ownership, even with the most diligent title examination money can buy. We've seen cases with deeds filed in authentic form (two witnesses and a notary) where the Seller's signature was a forgery.
What are we supposed to do? Call up every notary who signed an act in the chain of title and force them to produce photo ID's of the folks who signed in front of them? There are a million examples like this.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 10:36 am
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:32 am to bricksandstones
quote:
There is no way to be 100% sure of ownership, even with the most diligent title examination money can buy.
Ehh.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:34 am to billjamin
By the way, I noticed you didn't bother to counter these two points. Both of these are issues that happen POST-CLOSING. But I'm sure you expect the attorney to see the future, too.
quote:
Hell, go google how much of an issue Orleans is having with fraud on vacant lots. If someone steals your identity and tries to sell your lot, and you don't have title insurance, well... good luck. Again, this would have nothing to do with any "errors" by the attorney from your purchase.
Sometimes there's a kooky neighbor that tries to build his shed on the boundary line and forces you to take him to court to stop him.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:37 am to Neauxla_Tiger
quote:
By the way, I noticed you didn't bother to counter these two points. Both of these are issues that happen POST-CLOSING. But I'm sure you expect the attorney to see the future, too.
I'm not here to debate every instance that it's worthwhile. I'm saying its fricking retarded to charge and then make me take out my own policy to protect myself. Who the frick else does that?
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:42 am to billjamin
Well I can't speak to your personal experience but it either smells like BS or some type of illegal business practice. We close cash deals all the time where no owner's policy is purchased. We do our job thoroughly as we always do, and simply warn Buyers of the potential disastrous consequences. We have liability in everything that we do as attorneys, that doesn't change with or without an Owner's Policy. Long story short, your anger is missplaced and you paint with far too broad a brush. I see that I won't convince you of anything, and I have work to get back to. I hope you have better experiences in the future.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:46 am to billjamin
quote:
I'm not here to debate every instance that it's worthwhile
I'll take this as a concession.
quote:
I'm saying its fricking retarded to charge and then make me take out my own policy to protect myself. Who the frick else does that?
You buy new construction, but still have to buy homeowner's and flood insurance. Why can't the contractor just guarantee that the house was built well enough to withstand those things?
And before you say, "Because the contractor can't stop a natural disaster," please recall my point that the attorney can't stop fraud that happens post-closing (nor fraud that happens pre-closing, of which I gave examples).
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:49 am to bricksandstones
quote:
Well I can't speak to your personal experience but it either smells like BS or some type of illegal business practice.
All the big title companies in Houston wouldn't do it. Our lender (morgan stanley) didn't GAF because it wasn't a traditional loan.
quote:To be clear, i'm fine paying a title company to do their job. I'm fine with knowing they bake in malpractice insurance. A step to far is charging me for all that, then saying "well i really don't know WTF is going on so you better take out this policy"
your anger is missplaced and you paint with far too broad a brush
quote:It worked out fine for me in the end. It's just an irritating practice and one more way you get nickle and dimed to death trying to buy a house. Too many people riding those coat tails and it's been out of control for too long.
I see that I won't convince you of anything
Posted on 11/1/23 at 10:53 am to Neauxla_Tiger
quote:
You buy new construction, but still have to buy homeowner's and flood insurance. Why can't the contractor just guarantee that the house was built well enough to withstand those things?
You don't have to buy homeowners or flood insurance. Mortgage companies force that to protect their investment (its a way they de-risk their securitizations). The title company thats forcing the title insurance on me has no investment to protect in my home.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:06 am to billjamin
quote:
The title company thats forcing the title insurance on me has no investment to protect in my home.
Can't speak to Houston, but in Louisiana, it's optional.
But the Houston firms don't have to agree to do your transaction if you're going to cut out the majority of their profit. Some firms, if they know you don't want title insurance, may just increase their other fees a little to offset removing title insurance. Before you call that sleazy, this is no different than any business raising their prices enough to make sure at the end of the day they make enough to stay in business.
I'm sure if you and 10 friends walk into a restaurant and only order chips and salsa, the restaurant owner is going to ask you to leave if you're wasting their time. So if you tell these Houston firms "I want you to do weeks worth of work, but I want to pay jack-shite for these services," it's not that unreasonable that they tell you "No thanks."
You said in your prior post:
quote:
To be clear, i'm fine paying a title company to do their job. I'm fine with knowing they bake in malpractice insurance. A step to far is charging me for all that, then saying "well i really don't know WTF is going on so you better take out this policy"
So that sounds like as long as you're unaware that the cost of the insurance is baked into the other fees, then you're fine. But if it's a separate line item, then you're outraged? What's the difference? You're paying for the cost either way.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:16 am to Neauxla_Tiger
quote:To the title company? I already know they are to the underwriter. The sale of that policy is the "majority of their profit"? Really?
cut out the majority of their profit.
quote:
So if you tell these Houston firms "I want you to do weeks worth of work, but I want to pay jack-shite for these services,"
a weeks worth of work. Come on dude. quote:They can't bake it in because it's impossible. Which is a good thing that people get to see the line items they get hammered with over and over by all the grifters and get irritated by it.
So that sounds like as long as you're unaware that the cost of the insurance is baked into the other fees, then you're fine. But if it's a separate line item, then you're outraged? What's the difference? You're paying for the cost either way.
If you're curious how many people thinks its asinine, look at the upvote/down vote ratio of my original post. There's just a few of you knighting in here trying to justify it.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 11:27 am
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:19 am to billjamin
Good grief you are suchy a whiny cheapskate
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:23 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Good grief you are suchy a whiny cheapskate
I'm glad your mom's boyfriend let you back on the internet. Your worthless commentary makes even the shittiest posters feel better about themselves.Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:24 am to billjamin
All you are providing is low iq whining
Take a break from the internet
Take a break from the internet
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:26 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Take a break from the internet
Nah I'll keep pointing out how worthless you are as a poster and person.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 11:27 am
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:27 am to billjamin
And I will continue to remind this board that you are a low iq cheapo
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:27 am to SDVTiger
quote:
And I will continue to remind this board that you are a low iq cheapo
but only until your mom finds out you've been saying mean things again and takes away the WiFi.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:36 am to billjamin
quote:
Why do I have to pay them for a service and also buy insurance for them fricking up? Makes zero sense.
Because those charges are for different things. All or most of the fee for the title insurance is going to whoever the title insurance provider is, not the closing attorney. Depending on how things are structured with the closing attorney, most of the fees probably aren’t going to them other than just their settlement/closing fee and the fee for preparing the deed.
Also, you are absolutely free to not get an owner’s policy if you don’t want it. A property’s title can be very complex sometimes, so even if a title company/closing attorney does their due diligence, it is possible for something to be missed in the title search.
Posted on 11/1/23 at 11:43 am to Roll Tide Ravens
I've addressed all of that previously ITT.
Fun note:
Since this keeps getting bumped we're up to 104 people who think it's bullshite and 9 people who work at title companies trying to defend their existence.
Fun note:
Since this keeps getting bumped we're up to 104 people who think it's bullshite and 9 people who work at title companies trying to defend their existence.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 11:59 am
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