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re: If you have kids starting to search for college/career... what is left worth pursuing?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:29 am to yellowfin
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:29 am to yellowfin
I have one that’s halfway through his 2nd year at LSU and is on track to graduate on time if not sooner. Then he has other plans after to keep pursuing higher education
Daughter is a junior and still has her senior year of high school. Once she graduates, we’re outta here. Especially outta New Orleans.
Daughter is a junior and still has her senior year of high school. Once she graduates, we’re outta here. Especially outta New Orleans.
0
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:32 am to Gaston
No idea where we’ll end up
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:32 am to Mo Jeaux
Entrepreneurial skills.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:36 am to TTU97NI
I got a business degree (accounting) from a state school and was makes 6 figures in less than 3 years as a CPA.
I like working in my climate controlled office. frick being an HVAC guy who has to spend all day up in 140 degree attics when everyone’s AC breaks down in mid July. That sounds terrible to me.
I like working in my climate controlled office. frick being an HVAC guy who has to spend all day up in 140 degree attics when everyone’s AC breaks down in mid July. That sounds terrible to me.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:36 am to DamnGood86
quote:
Not engineering or STEM, in my opinion. AI will make human engineers, accountants, stock traders, etc. obsolete.
This guy got downvoted, but he's got a point. I'm still steering my young (elementary) kids to STEM and focusing on engineering. However, I'm in the industry and keeping a close watch.
There is a massive plug of young engineers out there and still coming out of the pipeline that I wouldn't call it a saturated market just yet, but it might be in the future. Outsourcing has been the challenge to U.S. engineers over the last 20 years or so. At one time, the U.S. could claim superior quality in producing engineers, but years of stale school practices, racial quotas, lowering the bar, etc has put the U.S. behind. My company can hire/outsource 3 or 4 engineers to every 1 U.S. engineer while sadly getting same or better quality.
Enter AI. It is taking over design as we know it. It's fun to laugh at memes and AI art now, but it has been in the engineering world for a few years now. I use a few applications in engineering that use a form of AI to produce designs. I use it to cut hundreds, and even thousands of billable hours of engineering and design. Companies are aware of this and actively trying to do more engineering with fewer engineers.
I'd like to think that engineering is untouchable, and that the liability portion will keep it protected. But the reality is that engineering relies heavily on mathematics, physics, laws, historical data, etc that can all be learned and processed by AI.
Again, I'm still steering my kids to engineering, but with a watchful eye.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:40 am to TTU97NI
A business degree puts you in the front line for those city jobs.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:44 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
When I see a young guy with no debt from his apprenticeship program making $100k
dude this isnt happening. where the frick do yall get these numbers....please tell me the trade where people are making 100k a year after a 4 year apprenticeship program
but please keep in mind you are talking to someone that went through the pipefitter and sprinkler fitter apprenticeship program, is a certified pipe fitter, has multiple nicet certs worked in the trades for 8 years. you arent making that kind of money unless you work 1500+ hours of OT. quit lying
and welders arent either.
quote:
that seems a lot better than going $50-$100k into debt to work at Starbucks.
nobody said go 50k into debt.
in louisiana you can easily get a degree with 10k or less debt easy with no help from parents. will you be partying it up at lsu in the best fraternity...nope. but it can be done.
quote:
There are also guys in their late '50's with half a million in a defined contribution plan and say a $5k per month accrued in their defined benefit pension.
bro you realize how rare unions in the trades now a days are right? sure IBEW is pretty big but you also have to travel to stay working in most cases and you will have to go to places like cali and hawaii to get enough points and it cost a shite ton to live there and you are not making a ton either. and overall that shite is rare AF
i just get tired of the idiots on this board who have never turned a wrench in their life...screaming to go in to the trades and its a 100k right off he bat or "can write your own ticket" when they are completely full of shite
the ot loves to talk about welders making 150k+ a year but fail to mention averages for texas is 44.5k a year and high end is 23/hour on average. as of jan the average was 18/hour. avg in LA is 48, top earners (top 25%) make little over 50k on average
sure you can make 150k plus. but you will literally be chasing TA after TA, working in god knows what vessel, living in a camper and never seeing the family working 7-12s
cool you make 150k a year but you cant walk by 50. great life there.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:45 am to concrete_tiger
quote:
So many fields threatened by imported slave labor (H1B), exportation, automation, or obsoleting.
What's left to rationally consider? My oldest is leaning toward Engineering or Law, maybe both.
I know the standard answer is engineering or STEM type careers but I work engineers with 20 years experience who make about 80% of what I make and they have to work 60 hours a week while I work 40. Engineering jobs can EASILY be done remotely anywhere in the world...someone has to actually hold the tape measure but after that everything can be done in Bangladesh. It is far harder, almost infinitely harder, for us to fill electrician and pipefitter calls than it is to hire an experienced engineer.
Just about any trade or management of trade people is going to be growing or is growing. I would guess that most professions in health care will continue to grow...hard to offshore nursing jobs.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:46 am to sidewalkside
quote:
Anyone with a trade these days has a blank check as long as they are halfway reliable, dependable, and professional
If I could do it all over again... My choice and advice!
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:47 am to sidewalkside
quote:
Anyone with a trade these days has a blank check as long as they are halfway reliable, dependable, and professional
LOADS of jobs, wages have not kept pace with other industries for at least 40 years and is as bad today as it has ever been. I know OT Ballers will come up with welders at 25 making $150K a year and I have no doubt there are some but most ain't.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:47 am to AutoYes_Clown
quote:
I'd like to think that engineering is untouchable, and that the liability portion will keep it protected. But the reality is that engineering relies heavily on mathematics, physics, laws, historical data, etc that can all be learned and processed by AI.
sections of engineering are untouchable and pretty much 90% of engineering is untouchable for atleast another 25 years. and getting an engineering degree and some kind of business masters degree allows you to flex in to pretty much any industry.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:49 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I know the standard answer is engineering or STEM type careers but I work engineers with 20 years experience who make about 80% of what I make and they have to work 60 hours a week while I work 40. Engineering jobs can EASILY be done remotely anywhere in the world...someone has to actually hold the tape measure but after that everything can be done in Bangladesh. It is far harder, almost infinitely harder, for us to fill electrician and pipefitter calls than it is to hire an experienced engineer.
Just about any trade or management of trade people is going to be growing or is growing. I would guess that most professions in health care will continue to grow...hard to offshore nursing jobs.
full of shite unless those engineers suck dick. but if you are 20 years in your career as an engineer and still in design then you arent very good anyways.
and even if you are right....thats not the case 99% of the time.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 10:53 am to Turnblad85
quote:
This is a business owner, not a tradesman. He makes his money off of tradesmen.
this is what people on here dont understand. the guy had family ties but 99% of people in the trades never make it past journeyman. they bust their arse for $25 an hour or if they are lucky $40 an hour. frick that
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:01 am to lsu777
quote:
quote:
When I see a young guy with no debt from his apprenticeship program making $100k
dude this isnt happening. where the frick do yall get these numbers....please tell me the trade where people are making 100k a year after a 4 year apprenticeship program
Just about the entirety of the IBEW and UA outside of right to work states are turning out journeyman after a 5 year apprenticeship who are making more than $100k a year. Thats wages...not including their benefits that do not come out of those wages. Even in most RTW states those same journeyman will make over $100k when you add the benefits that do not come out of their wages. at least 50% of the locals in RTW states are what is known as a walkthrough and have been for about 15 years...meaning if you have a ticket from another local you can go to work today. No application, no interview, just show up at the hall, take a referral and go to work. Locals in states that are not RTW states are also fully manned up, mostly with rebel trash making yankee cash.
There aren't many open shop tradesmen in RTW or non RTW states making $100K including benefits.
The problem with open shop or union shop trade careers is that it is GREAT when there is work to be had. A slight downturn in the economy will impact those jobs first. They are also fantastic when you are 25 but when you get 40 and have beat the shite out of your body chasing white lines and overtime most people find they start to lose a step...by 50 everyone does. At 50 most people still have 15 years or so of working life at least. NONE of them, union or non-union provide for this fact. It is also damn near impossible to maintain a family chasing overtime around the country. It is fantastic when you are 30, single, and do not have a wife and kids. If you do you are highly unlikely to have them long because Jody exists and it gets lonely in North Dakota when your wife is in Alabama.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:14 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Just about the entirety of the IBEW and UA outside of right to work states are turning out journeyman after a 5 year apprenticeship who are making more than $100k a year. Thats wages...not including their benefits that do not come out of those wages. Even in most RTW states those same journeyman will make over $100k when you add the benefits that do not come out of their wages. at least 50% of the locals in RTW states are what is known as a walkthrough and have been for about 15 years...meaning if you have a ticket from another local you can go to work today. No application, no interview, just show up at the hall, take a referral and go to work. Locals in states that are not RTW states are also fully manned up, mostly with rebel trash making yankee cash.
There aren't many open shop tradesmen in RTW or non RTW states making $100K including benefits.
they are only making 100k if you count benefits. thats not what we are talking
IBEW union electricians in louisiana
Georgia average is only 69k so not much better. Texas is same as GA. even in cali the average is not even 80k
this is for journeyman
quote:
The problem with open shop or union shop trade careers is that it is GREAT when there is work to be had. A slight downturn in the economy will impact those jobs first. They are also fantastic when you are 25 but when you get 40 and have beat the shite out of your body chasing white lines and overtime most people find they start to lose a step...by 50 everyone does. At 50 most people still have 15 years or so of working life at least. NONE of them, union or non-union provide for this fact. It is also damn near impossible to maintain a family chasing overtime around the country. It is fantastic when you are 30, single, and do not have a wife and kids. If you do you are highly unlikely to have them long because Jody exists and it gets lonely in North Dakota when your wife is in Alabama.
exactly. to make the type of money you are talking about it takes shite tons of OT working all over the country living in a fricking trailer.
better off going to work in the oilfield. make more and same shitty lifestyle
but sure trades just write their ticket....to a 50k a year job working their asses off in the heat and cold broken down by 50
or working 84 hours a week living in god knows where while someone else fricks your wife and not seeing your kids but one week a month at best.....sounds like a great life i want to encourage my kids to go into
never change OT, never change. like someone else said...bunch of cubicle douches who missed their calling as blue collar tycoons
:bow: :bow:Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:20 am to lsu777
quote:
but please keep in mind you are talking to someone that went through the pipefitter and sprinkler fitter apprenticeship program, is a certified pipe fitter, has multiple nicet certs worked in the trades for 8 years. you arent making that kind of money unless you work 1500+ hours of OT. quit lying
You went through the United Association's pipefitter apprenticeship program or an open shop apprenticeship program? If you have a United Association ticket as a pipefitter New Orleans has an open call as we speak at $31.70 an hour and a benefit package that does not come out of that $31.70 and hour that is equivalent to 43% of wages so the total package is $45.33 an hour. At 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year that is just under $91k a year. In a right to work state. Any OT beyond 8 hours a day (10 of scheduled 4-10s), and all day Saturday is paid at 1.5X the standard rate and Sundays and Holidays are 2X the standard rate. Any special skills (welding etc) is paid a premium as are shift differentials. It is not unusual for a welding fitter in New Orleans to clear $125k a year working very little overtime. That is in a right to work state. Hit the road to just about anywhere outside the south and the backward arse parts of the midwest (Indiana, Missourri) and $100k a year for 9-10 months work IN YOUR POCKET, not counting benefits, is the norm.
I worked 390 union tradesmen in the PNW 4 years ago. The laborers I had working for me made over $100K in their pocket. The electricians and pipefitters were making $150K and pushing 2. I had one pipefitter GF and 2 electrical GFs that were making nearly $250k a year in their pockets, not counting their benefits. That job has been going on for 22 years now, is probably 15 years from finishing, if then, and as of today every local in the area has an open call with per diem for every craft (trade). They can't fill them because there is so much work in the area where something is actually being done that no one will take them.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:28 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
and a benefit package that does not come out of that $31.70 and hour that is equivalent to 43% of wages so the total package is $45.33 an hour.
No one uses numbers like that to talk about pay.
If you tell me a job pays 100k, that doesnt mean its actually 75k and 25k of benefits. Its 100k and if you have benefits, theyre not just randomly added to that number
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:34 am to lsu777
quote:
they are only making 100k if you count benefits. thats not what we are talking
IBEW union electricians in louisiana
So I have not "worked with my tools" out of an IBEW Local in nearly 10 years because I can make more money managing union tradesman on the other side of the fence. I make more hourly and if, god forbid I work any OT (I do not under any circumstance) I get paid 1.5x and 2x my hourly rate depending one when the OT is. Currently my hourly rate is almost 240% of the journeyman rate. Out of that, like most people not in a trade union, are my retirement savings - the people I manage do not pay a dime out of their wages for retirement. My employer will match up to 10% of what I save and will do the same thing for the union tradesmen who decide to save. If I had health insurance through my employer part of it would come out of my wages...not so with the tradesmen. I am covered under another policy so I do not need to pay. I do not have a defined pension benefit plan...the people I manage do, along with their retirement savings that do not come out of their wages AND any further savings they elect to be with held. So they get health, dental, vision, long term disability, short term disability and life insurance that is the envy of any workforce, and nary a penny is taken from their hourly wages. They also have 2-4 different defined pension benefit plans that do not come out of their hourly wage, they have a retirements savings account of 10-12% that does not come out of their wages and can save as much as they want in another account that the employer will match up to 10%. It is not an apples to apples comparison to compare their hourly rate to mine and ignore benefits. I pay for ALL of my benefits out of my salary, except for the 10% match of retirement savings and the employers portion of healthcare if I had it. They do not pay a penny out of their hourly rate for those things.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:36 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
open shop apprenticeship program?
open shop but national labor board sponsored
have nicets through level 3 in sprinkler inspection, level 3 in design
quote:
If you have a United Association ticket as a pipefitter New Orleans has an open call as we speak at $31.70 an hour and a benefit package that does not come out of that $31.70 and hour that is equivalent to 43% of wages so the total package is $45.33 an hour. At 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year that is just under $91k a year. In a right to work state. Any OT beyond 8 hours a day (10 of scheduled 4-10s), and all day Saturday is paid at 1.5X the standard rate and Sundays and Holidays are 2X the standard rate. Any special skills (welding etc) is paid a premium as are shift differentials. It is not unusual for a welding fitter in New Orleans to clear $125k a year working very little overtime. That is in a right to work state. Hit the road to just about anywhere outside the south and the backward arse parts of the midwest (Indiana, Missourri) and $100k a year for 9-10 months work IN YOUR POCKET, not counting benefits, is the norm.
but why would i do that when i was able to make more than that 3 years out of college without ot in my engineering job?
quote:
I worked 390 union tradesmen in the PNW 4 years ago. The laborers I had working for me made over $100K in their pocket. The electricians and pipefitters were making $150K and pushing 2. I had one pipefitter GF and 2 electrical GFs that were making nearly $250k a year in their pockets, not counting their benefits. That job has been going on for 22 years now, is probably 15 years from finishing, if then, and as of today every local in the area has an open call with per diem for every craft (trade). They can't fill them because there is so much work in the area where something is actually being done that no one will take them.
extreme rarity and takes 10+ years to become general foreman. those jobs that pay like that make up about 0.25% of for union electricians.
engineers can make that easily working in the plants in South LA, no OT, not per diem to worry about and way better benefits and home every night and much lower cost of living
im not saying the rare 1% cant make that kind of money in the trades but they will be living away from family chasing OT and per diem and its still rare AF
thats my point, the OT cubicle douche acts like every welder is making 150k plus and everyone is cut out to own their own business. its fricking laughable when every statistic shows the exact opposite
now i pray that everyone of them keep their word and push their kids into the trades, means less competition for my sons.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 11:38 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
So I have not "worked with my tools" out of an IBEW Local in nearly 10 years because I can make more money managing union tradesman on the other side of the fence. I make more hourly and if, god forbid I work any OT (I do not under any circumstance) I get paid 1.5x and 2x my hourly rate depending one when the OT is. Currently my hourly rate is almost 240% of the journeyman rate. Out of that, like most people not in a trade union, are my retirement savings - the people I manage do not pay a dime out of their wages for retirement. My employer will match up to 10% of what I save and will do the same thing for the union tradesmen who decide to save. If I had health insurance through my employer part of it would come out of my wages...not so with the tradesmen. I am covered under another policy so I do not need to pay. I do not have a defined pension benefit plan...the people I manage do, along with their retirement savings that do not come out of their wages AND any further savings they elect to be with held. So they get health, dental, vision, long term disability, short term disability and life insurance that is the envy of any workforce, and nary a penny is taken from their hourly wages. They also have 2-4 different defined pension benefit plans that do not come out of their hourly wage, they have a retirements savings account of 10-12% that does not come out of their wages and can save as much as they want in another account that the employer will match up to 10%. It is not an apples to apples comparison to compare their hourly rate to mine and ignore benefits. I pay for ALL of my benefits out of my salary, except for the 10% match of retirement savings and the employers portion of healthcare if I had it. They do not pay a penny out of their hourly rate for those things.
you are not in the trades, you are in management.
how many guys out there get to your level that is the average IBEW journeyman? Would be like the business leader of the local union posting his salary and saying evreyone should go in the trades
THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING IN THE TRADES AND BEING IN MANAGEMENT, STOP ACTING LIKE THEY ARE 1 IN THE SAME!!
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