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re: How the Army sabotaged the M16
Posted on 3/26/25 at 8:42 pm to cgrand
Posted on 3/26/25 at 8:42 pm to cgrand
Back in the 80’s I worked with an ex-Marine Vietnam vet. He fricking hated the M16…said it jammed constantly. He finally tossed it and went to supply for a M14.
He was one crazy SOB. He loved the war and wished it had never ended. He would talk all day about killing Vietcong with this crazy smile and glazed over eyes.
His son wound up killing an off duty deputy at a gas station. He quit not too long after that.
He was one crazy SOB. He loved the war and wished it had never ended. He would talk all day about killing Vietcong with this crazy smile and glazed over eyes.
His son wound up killing an off duty deputy at a gas station. He quit not too long after that.
1
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:00 pm to zippyputt
quote:
It would go right through the enemy w/o expanding or providing any stopping power.
Iraq 2008. Started working in Iraqi Police to traffic cordons around Baghdad in the hope the number (50 or so) Iraqi's shot everyday at traffic cordons would go down.
With nothing to do the E4s start tracing the Iraqi Police with their ACOGs and would do that for a minute then dry fire their weapon. Well one of them had a round chambered and hit the IP guy in the upper right chest at about 100 meters. Absolutely nothing, they guy had a small hole in the front and a small hole in the back. Off to the TMC for a night of observation and the IP was back on duty the next day with his right arm in a small sling.
The IP got 300 bucks and the SPC got Court Martialed. 5.56 round fired from an M4 but you get the idea.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:13 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
5.56 round fired from an M4 but you get the idea.
The wiki page on 5.56 actually has some good context on the effectiveness of the round when it would (ideally) yaw or tumble on impact and be much more effective, and the things that could negatively affect that like barrel length and twist, among other things.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:27 pm to Havoc
quote:
impact
Key word. At impact the base of the round is engineered to fragment and then you (in theory) have two pieces of the same round moving through your body. But it has to hit something.
The M4 is a much shorter barrel than the A2 and the Army wont admit it but scores went down with the adoption of the M4. Open sights its tough to hit a 300m target with an M4.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:41 pm to BarberitosDawg
quote:
You are hijacking this thread
Sorry.
quote:
I gave you a very favorable reply
You did, I appreciate it.
quote:
I would like to see one started by you
I've come to find the Civil War threads with the Lost Causers to be a waste of time. I didn't mean to turn this thread into one, but I never have understood why they ignore the habeas corpus exception in the Constitution, and Tide06 gave no new insights for me. So then I got carried away when I should have let it rest.
That said, I'm always interested in new opinions on the matter, and would welcome yours.
My personal opinion is that the entire war was folly - as is most war. But I'm satisfied with the outcome.
But on the topic of the OP, I was under the impression that the M16 used a detachable magazine, but saw that you had referred to "clips" ITT. If you're just using slang I don't really give a shite. If you were literally referring to clips, my bad. But there are people who will freak the frick out over the use of "clip" for "detachable box magazine".
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:45 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
there are people who will freak the frick out over the use of "clip" for "detachable box magazine".
Those people suck and deserve to be fricked with
Posted on 3/27/25 at 6:20 am to StanSmith
It is amazing at how negligent senior officers and certain parts of the armed forces can act with seemingly no consequences.
—Afghanistan withdrawl
—Afghanistan withdrawl
Posted on 3/27/25 at 6:22 am to ManWithNoNsme
ex-Marine Vietnam vet. He fricking hated the M16….
He was one crazy SOB. He loved the war and wished it had never ended. He would talk all day about killing Vietcong with this crazy smile and glazed over eyes.
—-more of an argument FOR the M16 as a weapon
He was one crazy SOB. He loved the war and wished it had never ended. He would talk all day about killing Vietcong with this crazy smile and glazed over eyes.
—-more of an argument FOR the M16 as a weapon
Posted on 3/27/25 at 9:07 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
Agree on some points, when the AR’s were taken up but NATO went with the FAL and we almost did but politics played a part…
The M-16-A1 in full auto is uncontrolled as well and is why it was removed and the 3 round burst enacted on the A-2.
Have you ever shot a full auto FAL??? Talk about hard to handle
Posted on 3/27/25 at 9:14 am to Park duck
We were ahead of the curve with both the M16 and the 5.56
If there was something better, the socom guys would be using it. The Osama raid was done with M4 variants chambered in 5.56. Its still the best thing going for soft targets at short to intermediate range.
The weapon is ultra reliable and the round is right-sized for anti-people work. I think as body armor continues to proliferate we might see a shift back to larger calibers out of necessity but for now, it's still the best thing going. Which makes it all the more frustrating that the rollout in Nam was such a cluster frick.
If there was something better, the socom guys would be using it. The Osama raid was done with M4 variants chambered in 5.56. Its still the best thing going for soft targets at short to intermediate range.
The weapon is ultra reliable and the round is right-sized for anti-people work. I think as body armor continues to proliferate we might see a shift back to larger calibers out of necessity but for now, it's still the best thing going. Which makes it all the more frustrating that the rollout in Nam was such a cluster frick.
Posted on 3/27/25 at 5:30 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
M16 used a detachable magazine, but saw that you had referred to "clips" ITT.
No Sir, the clips I was referring to were the rifle sling attachments you had two for the sling. They sucked arse. And you picked them up when ever you spotted one cause they popped off when humping.
They A-2 when it finally rolled out was a vastly superior weapon A.) because it was new and had a a better systems.
The other guy asking if I ever shot a fully auto FAL?
No would love too!
I have a CETEME clone in a closet somewhere but it’s a Semi automatic.
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