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Message
re: Former Vanderbilt nurse charged with patient abuse, reckless homicide
Posted on 2/6/19 at 6:49 pm to TOSOV
Posted on 2/6/19 at 6:49 pm to TOSOV
quote:
So she did it on purpose or just some kind of mix up?
There are so many checks and cross-checks when medication is involved in a hospital that when mistakes happen, you often have a strong case for negligent or reckless homicide just because of all the giant flashing warning signs that should alert the healthcare pro that something's hinky and it's time to slow down and make sure that things aren't going squirrely. Even if you can't prove the intent required for a more serious charge, ignoring or overriding the checks and balances in place is pretty reckless and negligent.
How does she explain away the fact that she had to override the Pyxis to get the medication that killed the guy? How does she explain away the fact that the medication she administered after the machine tried to stop her was not what was ordered by the doctor? If the doctor's orders were unclear and causing confusion that led to what she did, then shouldn't she have stopped and confirmed what the proper orders were?
Nah, that chick killed that dude. Maybe not on purpose, but she definitely killed him.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 7:02 pm
1
Posted on 2/6/19 at 6:52 pm to TechDawg2007
quote:
She typed in the first two letters of the drug because she semi remembered the name. Unfortunately the wrong drug popped up on the screen first. This was in the local news here.
Then she is the dumbest nurse on the planet. I don't buy this was an error.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 6:56 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
How does she explain away the fact that the medication dispensing robot tried to give her the proper prescribed medication, but she went in and overrode it to get the medication that killed the guy?
Depends on how the particular Pyxis is set up. Depends on how she looked up name, by generic name or trade name. Vec is used in association with intubation, and those drugs often come with a hard stop/ check. Versed is often the same way depending on facility.
Still difficult to understand how she didn't catch the error. Vec has to be be reconstituted (comes in powder in vial, so you must add sterile water), Versed is already in liquid form.
This post was edited on 2/12/19 at 9:27 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:03 pm to Big Block Stingray
quote:
Depends on how the particular Pyxis is set up. Depends on how she looked up name, by generic name or trade name. Vec is used for intubation and those drugs often come with a hard stop/ check. Versed is often the same way depending on facility.
I can see what you're saying. If a whole bunch of drugs have the same "are you sure?" speedbump, it's human nature to just hit the "yes" button to get past it. That doesn't really help her defense, though, because it sort of demonstrates indifference.
I can see an argument that over-reliance on the Pyxis led to an accident like this happening, but that's damning in and of itself because it seems like that's admitting that she never once checked the drug to make sure it was what was ordered.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:04 pm to TechDawg2007
quote:
She typed in the first two letters of the drug because she semi remembered the name. Unfortunately the wrong drug popped up on the screen first. This was in the local news here.
Is this what she said or is this them speculating?
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:06 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
I can see what you're saying. If a whole bunch of drugs have the same "are you sure?" speedbump, it becomes human nature to just hit the "yes" button to get past it. That doesn't really help her defense, though, because it demonstrates indifference
I can somewhat see how the error could be made, but make no mistake it was negligence.
This post was edited on 2/12/19 at 9:28 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:27 pm to weagle99
quote:
There is a theory that there are nurse serial killers in nursing homes who never get caught due to the age and condition of the patients.
That isn’t a theory, it actually happened
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:28 pm to Tigerbait357
It should be noted that the supervising doctor and a Vanderbilt administrator both LIED to the state medical examiner even after they knew exactly what happened. They said the patient died (technically was removed from life support the following day) from his underlying symptoms and there was no need to perform an autopsy.
F'in hospitals man. I mean, the nurse was obviously negligent, but there was clearly procedural foul up before and after as well. And how can highly paid, trained professionals blatantly lie about something like this?
And why do we have vending machines dispensing serious, potentially deadly medications anyway? Probably because some a-hole bureaucrat figured he could save a few thousand bucks by eliminating pharmacy staff and then give himself an even fatter year end bonus. Hope he raids that cookie jar soon, because the plaintiff's attorneys are going to have a field day with this case.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:31 pm to AUFANATL
quote:
And why do we have vending machines dispensing serious, potentially deadly medications anyway?
Do you understand how a hospital works?
Clearly you do not. So you think a pharmacist is on every single nursing unit just sitting around waiting to dispense all of the hundreds of meds the nurses have to give to all of their patients for that shift?
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:31 pm to TechDawg2007
She also was working ICU and does not regularly work ICU.
Drugs have very similar names.
Huge and costly error, but indictment on homicide? frick outta here. If there is one thing this state loves, it it putting people in prison.
Drugs have very similar names.
Huge and costly error, but indictment on homicide? frick outta here. If there is one thing this state loves, it it putting people in prison.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:37 pm to AlonsoWDC
quote:
She also was working ICU and does not regularly work ICU.
Drugs have very similar names.
Lame and bullshite excuse.
If she was floated to a unit she doesn't normally work, ESP an ICU setting..she should have been even MORE cautious in getting meds from the pyxis. The first override screen to pop up should have given her pause.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:38 pm to AlonsoWDC
quote:
Drugs have very similar names. Huge and costly error, but indictment on homicide? frick outta here. If there is one thing this state loves, it it putting people in prison.
Uh what do you think the proper punishment should be?
There is definitely a difference between versed and vecuronium. This is a bullshite excuse. When you work with the meds they work with, you better be damn sure what you are giving the patient. Especially with multiple over rides trying to get the medication
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:03 pm to lsunurse
The first thing I thought was if Versed was the drug prescribed the patient may have been combative. Maybe she purposely tried to zonk him out so she didn't have to deal with him/her. I don't see how it wasn't intentional.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:03 pm to Tigerbait357
Tennessee is a law and order state. They do like locking them up here.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:18 am to Tigerbait357
Ive read that the DA who charged her, Funck, is on the faculty of Vanderbilt Law School.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:22 am to lsunurse
This actually happens with frightening frequency in fast-paced environments like the ER.
I've corrected mutiple errors with less-lethal drug mix-ups with this exact scenario. Nurses just punching buttons and barely reading the screen.
I remind my nurses often that every time they override instead of putting in an order and letting a pharmacist verify, they put their license and patient at risk. This is a sad example of gross negligence.
I've corrected mutiple errors with less-lethal drug mix-ups with this exact scenario. Nurses just punching buttons and barely reading the screen.
I remind my nurses often that every time they override instead of putting in an order and letting a pharmacist verify, they put their license and patient at risk. This is a sad example of gross negligence.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:27 am to AUFANATL
quote:
And why do we have vending machines dispensing serious, potentially deadly medications anyway? Probably because some a-hole bureaucrat figured he could save a few thousand bucks by eliminating pharmacy staff
Pharmacists still have to verify medications for nurses to retrieve them from the cabinets, but some high-acuity floors will have certain meds on "override" incase they are needed right away for a serious patient care issue.
One hospital I worked at actually doesn't have any paralytic on override and forces practitioners to call intubation codes over the PA for people to bring the necessary drugs. Helps prevent shite like this.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:34 am to WylieTiger
quote:
Except you have to then override the warning sign the Pyxsis displays. She should have known to double check at that point. You learn that shite early on. She was negligent.
If I was her defense counsel, (assuming TN law has criminally negligent homicide as a misdemeanor), I would first see if I could make a deal for her to plead to that. Before any of that though, I would make her voluntarily surrender her nursing license if the TN board of nursing has not revoked such yet.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:41 am to Tiguar
quote:
I remind my nurses often that every time they override instead of putting in an order and letting a pharmacist verify, they put their license and patient at risk. This is a sad example of gross negligence.
True, but in an emergency there is no time for pharmacy to sign off on it. But even still, pharmacy does makes critical errors as well.
Posted on 2/12/19 at 9:49 am to Tiguar
They aren’t “your” nurses
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