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Started By
Message
re: For all those with single digit IQs on Jones Creek
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:21 am to bayoubengals88
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:21 am to bayoubengals88
lol at you idiots who need cars to get around
0
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:21 am to Delacroix
What the other side of the argument is saying is that if you merge early enough when there is enough spacing that people do not have to hit their brakes, you lose that ripple effect. Yes, if traffic is basically stopped and it takes the same amount of braking effort to merge in the back as it does in the front, then what's the difference if you go up to the front or merge right there. But, if you merged when you first saw the sign and traffic was still moving at an okay pace, and there was enough space that the car behind you did not tap his/her brakes, then what problem have you caused. Yes traffic will slow due to same amount of cars per minute through a tighter space, but you limit the full stops that cause the ripple effect. If you don't have to "let someone in" at the point of no return, then you can still maintain that speed. That's smoothing out the flow.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:22 am to DollaChoppa
if everyone is going through the one lane that isnt closed at full speed without stopping i dont see how there is a faster way to get through the bottleneck...
seems stopping and letting someone in every car would take the same speed, maybe more because that car has to accelerate from 0
seems stopping and letting someone in every car would take the same speed, maybe more because that car has to accelerate from 0
This post was edited on 8/24/16 at 10:22 am
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:25 am to KG6
quote:
If you don't have to "let someone in" at the point of no return, then you can still maintain that speed. That's smoothing out the flow.
That can also be achieved by people not making sure they let no one in. That allows more of the capacity of the roadway to be used and less overall congestion because the length of the back up is lessened.
But again, people don't currently drive that way.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:25 am to DollaChoppa
quote:
Also, I dont see how merging upstream would make a shockwave worse
By merging at the merge point there is a more controlled merge. Speed is more constant and there are less variables like people blocking a lane to try and get over or people speeding up the unused lane and then cutting off someone which then creates the shockwave behind the cutoff vehicle.
If people treated all merges like both lanes were merging into one, traffic would flow much smoother.
If you really got your masters in transportation engineering, you didn't pay attention at all or you had idiotic professors
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:26 am to sgallo3
quote:
seems stopping and letting someone in every car would take the same speed, maybe more because that car has to accelerate from 0
No one is suggesting stopping to let someone in.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:28 am to LNCHBOX
quote:No, he's not. I don't think you understand anything about this at all. All you say is "Zippermerge"
Not sure why you're bowing to him. He's saying something completely different than what you are.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:29 am to Delacroix
quote:This is objectively false.
By merging at the merge point there is a more controlled merge. Speed is more constant
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:29 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
No one is suggesting stopping to let someone in.
but there is always gonna be stopping when one lane is closed a busy 2 lane highway. i guess u can stop far enough back to allow a merge and take up less highway but it doesnt work unless every single person does it, which doesnt happen
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:29 am to AlxTgr
He is. The fact that you can't see it is pretty funny though.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:30 am to AlxTgr
quote:
This is objectively false.
If ask for proof of this, but I already know you're not going to provide any.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:30 am to KG6
quote:
But, if you merged when you first saw the sign and traffic was still moving at an okay pace, and there was enough space that the car behind you did not tap his/her brakes, then what problem have you caused
The problem with this is that the point at which you merge without hitting your brakes continues to get further and further upstream. Then you are left with a long arse lane of unused capacity and the merge eventually starts happening before the warning signs are displayed. Which in turn leads to people cutting others off to get into the merge lane.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:32 am to KG6
Right, thats why zipper merging at the last possible moment, as shown in the image from DOTD is completely idiotic. It makes way more sense to consider the concept of zipper merging over the space of a quarter, or half a mile or whatever. But to suggest that people can just all merge right at the end of the merge without causing some sort of shockwave that causes a clusterfrick is asinine. You cant maximize the capacity of the roadway and expect flow to not decrease.
A "zipper" merge is great, its what people should do, but not like how DOTD is presenting it Thats the major problem. You could see this in VISSIM if you wanted to model it.
Oh and of course, this will only work perfectly if the roadway isnt at capacity. If its peak period traffic you are gonna be fricked anyway because there wont be enough space for people to zipper merge no matter how far upstream they start.
A "zipper" merge is great, its what people should do, but not like how DOTD is presenting it
Thats the major problem. You could see this in VISSIM if you wanted to model it. Oh and of course, this will only work perfectly if the roadway isnt at capacity. If its peak period traffic you are gonna be fricked anyway because there wont be enough space for people to zipper merge no matter how far upstream they start.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:36 am to Delacroix
quote:
By merging at the merge point there is a more controlled merge. Speed is more constant and there are less variables like people blocking a lane to try and get over or people speeding up the unused lane and then cutting off someone which then creates the shockwave behind the cutoff vehicle.
Look man, youre just wrong.
quote:
If people treated all merges like both lanes were merging into one, traffic would flow much smoother.
Heres something else I havent mentioned, speed decreases when the number of lanes decrease or where there is construction or congestion. This is a fact. People will drive closer together when speed decreases. The gaps will be larger upstream than downstream near the bottleneck. Its just easier to change lanes without causing a shockwave upstream than it is downstream. If you are really going to argue against it, then Idk what to tell you.
quote:
f you really got your masters in transportation engineering, you didn't pay attention at all or you had idiotic professors
I had some professors who are the smartest men either of us will ever meet. You just dont understand traffic flow theory.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:39 am to DollaChoppa
quote:
Heres something else I havent mentioned, speed decreases when the number of lanes decrease or where there is construction or congestion. This is a fact. People will drive closer together when speed decreases.
You literally just proved my point. Why limit yourself to 1 lane when there are multiple lanes to use up until your merger point.
quote:
I had some professors who are the smartest men either of us will ever meet.
surePosted on 8/24/16 at 10:41 am to Delacroix
quote:
the point at which you merge without hitting your brakes continues to get further and further upstream
How does the merge point get further upstream if people arent hitting their brakes?
I mean, if they arent slowing down then it doesnt. Now, if you want to differentiate between hitting the brakes and letting off the gas, then just let me know, because I dont want to get stuck arguing semantics.
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:42 am to Delacroix
quote:
Why limit yourself to 1 lane when there are multiple lanes to use up until your merger point.
because the speed is going to decrease the same amount. you have 100 cars that can get through a spot. do you really care if you have to wait behind 49 in one lane and 50 in the other or 99 in 1 lane? u arent going to get through any faster
This post was edited on 8/24/16 at 10:44 am
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:43 am to Delacroix
quote:
You literally just proved my point. Why limit yourself to 1 lane when there are multiple lanes to use up until your merger point.
Oh so there being smaller gaps near the merge where speed decreases proves your point that its more efficient to merge downstream than upstream?
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:47 am to DollaChoppa
I'm tired of arguing with the stubborn and ignorant. I'll just leave this here. LINK
Just google this issue. If you can find any proof your method is better, I'd love to see it
Just google this issue. If you can find any proof your method is better, I'd love to see it
This post was edited on 8/24/16 at 10:48 am
Posted on 8/24/16 at 10:54 am to Delacroix
2 things.
1) In the first video with the zipper merge there were multiple people not waiting to till the merge point to merge (see stupid DOTD graphic)
2) Traffic seemed to be moving at about the same speed through the merge point.
So like Ive said over and over, its not increasing flow through the bottleneck. Its just acting as an auxiliary through lane. Which is great! especially for surface streets.
1) In the first video with the zipper merge there were multiple people not waiting to till the merge point to merge (see stupid DOTD graphic)
2) Traffic seemed to be moving at about the same speed through the merge point.
So like Ive said over and over, its not increasing flow through the bottleneck. Its just acting as an auxiliary through lane. Which is great! especially for surface streets.
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