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re: Father and son arrested after killing catalytic converter thief

Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:25 am to
Posted by OSoBad
Member since Nov 2016
2007 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:25 am to
quote:

I probably wouldn’t shoot a thief over a catalytic converters for my own moral reasons


Me either, but a beating of a lifetime isn’t off the table.
Posted by KnB Purple
Member since Nov 2021
14 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:33 am to
What you're describing makes you a decent, contributing member of society, yes. But the law says otherwise. Things are replaceable, lives are not.

Quoting from Katko v Briney:

"The law has always placed a higher value upon human safety than upon mere rights in property, it is the accepted rule that there is no privilege to use any force calculated to cause death or serious bodily injury to repel the threat to land or chattels, unless there is also such a threat to the defendant's personal safety as to justify a self-defense"

You don't have to like it or agree but it is what it is.
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
24859 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:34 am to
Think I would have shot his tires before I shot him.
Posted by Barbellthor
Columbia
Member since Aug 2015
11289 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:36 am to
quote:

Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property

Except yes. You could, comrade.
quote:

§20.  Justifiable homicide

A.  A homicide is justifiable:
...
(3)  When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.

(4)(a)  When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40) when the conflict began, against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:36 am to
quote:

when you go around people's houses or property and commit crimes you're always taking a chance
Just like when you shoot someone in the head and chest, you're always taking a chance that it won't be considered justified.
Posted by Barbellthor
Columbia
Member since Aug 2015
11289 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:37 am to
quote:

If you think material possessions are more important than a human life I don't know what to tell you.

If you think people don't have the right to defend their property against people who don't value their own life as much as depriving people of their livelihood, then I don't know what to tell you.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:38 am to
What you cited is the defense of self/others law, not defense of personal property. Either you or someone you are protecting has to be in the vehicle for that statute to apply.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 6:42 am
Posted by Barbellthor
Columbia
Member since Aug 2015
11289 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:43 am to
quote:

What you cited is the defense of self/others law

I'm quite aware. Also:
quote:

while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.

Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:44 am to
Right. But again, you or someone else you are defending has to be in the vehicle for that to apply.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:45 am to
quote:

If you think people don't have the right to defend their property against people who don't value their own life as much as depriving people of their livelihood, then I don't know what to tell you.
By law, you typically don't have that right with respect to personal property. You can argue that you should, but that is a different question.
Posted by dolamite
st. mary parish
Member since Sep 2009
1115 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:46 am to
Horse thieves, when caught, were shot or hanged, or by some means, made an example of.
Back then, they had it right!
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33142 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:47 am to
quote:

If you think material possessions are more important than a human life I don't know what to tell you.



Catalytic converter thieves aren’t human though.
Posted by dstarsntigers
Member since Apr 2022
796 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:48 am to
If you hop on the internet to defend the “rights” of thieves you’re just as big a POS as they are
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:48 am to
quote:

Horse thieves, when caught, were shot or hanged, or by some means, made an example of.
Back then, they had it right!
Yeah, to hell with that pesky 5th Amendment.
Posted by Aubie Spr96
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
44413 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:48 am to
quote:

When you decide to be a thief you accept the risk of being caught and the consequences.


Exactly. A rational outcome of breaking into someone’s home or property has to be possibly losing your life. We all know that these frickers aren’t going to jail for it which is why they continue to do it.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:49 am to
quote:

If you hop on the internet to defend the “rights” of thieves you’re just as big a POS as they are
Just saying what the law is. You don't forfeit all your rights when you commit a crime.
Posted by Gravitiger
Member since Jun 2011
12440 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:51 am to
quote:

A rational outcome of breaking into someone’s home or property has to be possibly losing your life.
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the loss of that life is automatically justified.
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
24859 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:56 am to
What if they stood in front of his car and he started driving towards them?
Posted by DamnGood86
Member since Aug 2019
1291 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:59 am to
I was speaking philosophically. I do not know Katko v. Briney and presumably, neither does the State of Texas.

Texas Penal Code, Chapter 9, Subchapter D (Castle Doctrine)
discusses the use of deadly force for the protection of property.

You do not have to like it, but it is what it is.
Posted by EF Hutton
Member since Jan 2018
2366 posts
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:59 am to
Barbell, you are not reading the law correctly.

There is a concurrance of actus reus & mens rea. Act & intent. And an element of reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

Your case will be presented to a jury using the reasonable man test and the totality of circumstances.
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