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re: EV owners are increasingly frustrated with home charging, and it should worry EV makers
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:14 pm to AwgustaDawg
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:14 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Most families have 2 cars
Along with what you posted, this is an interesting side note in and of itself.
All these residential loads we're talking about would be doubled, tripled, etc. in multi-car households, unless charging was somehow staggered.
We usually tend to think of just one vehicle, but what if mom and dad and junior all need to supercharge at the same time?
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Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:16 pm to paperwasp
quote:
You're correct, but don't confuse power with energy.
The capacity of an EV is in kWh, which is akin to how much gas it has in the tank, i.e. larger kWh packs have more range.
kWh divided by kW of power available gives you charging time (in hours).
A 40-amp circuit at 240V would be about 7.7 kW, versus 6.6 kW for 208V, theoretically.*
If your car had a 60 kWh battery, this would equate to about 1.3 hours less charging time.
*In the real world with circuit losses and partially-full batteries, it would probably mean about an hour saved overall.
The cost of the electricity would correspond to the amount of charge....so the 6.6 kwh of power would cost the same as the 7.7 kwh of power per kwh, if they were charged during the same period and at the same rate per kwh. Yes, the batteries would have more charge in less time BUT it would be the same as buying 10 gallons of gas at $4 a gallon and 9 gallons of gas at $4 an gallon...you can drive more miles with 10 gallons but the price per mile is the same, no?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:16 pm to Robin Masters
quote:I've had an EV for 3.5 years, this has never happened. I also had and still have an ICE vehicle, never ran out of gas either but it still can happen all the same like forgetting to charge.
Remembering to keep all the battery powered devices charged up ALL THE TIME is virtually impossible. There will be numerous occasions when you need your EV and it won’t be charged. Americans don’t do well with waiting and inconvenience.
You're just making that up. That'll happen to a very small % of people, the same type of people who will forget to get gas and run out in the middle of the road, so I fail to see your point here.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:20 pm to ragincajun03
It costs like $40-50 dollars a month to charge an EV on average. Still cheaper than the pump.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:22 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
EVs currently are not practical for most car buyers.
quote:
Most families have 2 cars. Both are daily commuters and used to run errands. A couple of times a year one is used for long distance travel.
quote:I may be confused. I know I picked out small parts of your larger post but still feel I read the entire thing, but not sure what you mean here. I feel like your examples showed why EVs actually are practical for most car buyers(but not all)
The problem is that EVs are fine for about 90% of driving done in the US
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:22 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
the price per mile is the same, no?
I believe so, yes.
Only thing I can think of may be if more kW could be imparted, more of that could be accomplished off-peak.
(But that's kind of a stretch.)
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:25 pm to rhar61
quote:
What will apartment dwellers do if they all want one?
Anecdotally it ain't good LOL. My son lives in an apartment complex in Buckhead, Atlanta. Very affluent neighborhood for those unfamiliar. His complex is almost all 20 somethings, fresh out of college, no bills other than rent and car notes, and pretty good salaries (most probably come from upper middle class homes also which don't hurt). I would say about half the cars are EVS. Drop cords EVERYWHERE! The trips and falls after a night of doing what 20 somethings do in Buckhead on a Friday and Saturday nights is staggering. Bad enough if youre sober, damn near impossible to navigate that mine field of tripping hazards if you are 3 sheets to the wind. The management people send them warnings almost weekly...threatening eviction for stringing a drop cord out the front door and across the sidewalk to charge the car...they haven't carried through in 3 years that he is aware of. They are also sending notices on the regular not to unplug anyone's cars. Apparently that is a regular occurrence also. If it were a 4 or 5 amp load at 120 volts it would be a simple problem to correct...just a duplex outlet at every other parking spot. As they are now it looks like a bunch of welders got drunk and went to work every evening. You can hear the meters spinning off the wall LOL.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:26 pm to Bonkers119
quote:
It costs like $40-50 dollars a month to charge an EV on average. Still cheaper than the pump.
How do you use the vehicle?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:28 pm to paperwasp
quote:
I believe so, yes.
Only thing I can think of may be if more kW could be imparted, more of that could be accomplished off-peak.
(But that's kind of a stretch.)
Interesting enough with enough cash outlay one of the whole house "batteries" (capacitor banks, storage units, call them what you will) charged during off peak times and used to charge the vehicle could be practial...but they are also not cheap.
I was all in on EVs and excited until I checked out a quick charger at a hotel. It just ain't cost effective yet for most people....
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:29 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
They are also sending notices on the regular not to unplug anyone's cars
Not applicable to an extension cord scenario of course, but I think a lot of EVs have locking outlets that only release when it has reached a desired charge level.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:29 pm to shel311
From how many perform in rough winter weather here, I'll wait a decade or so.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I don't know that much about them in cold weather, but in the extremes, it definitely seems like research should be done and they may not be great options.
From how many perform in rough winter weather here, I'll wait a decade or so.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:34 pm to shel311
quote:
I may be confused. I know I picked out small parts of your larger post but still feel I read the entire thing, but not sure what you mean here. I feel like your examples showed why EVs actually are practical for most car buyers(but not all)
$10K EV capable of carrying 1000 pounds at 35 MPH for 20-30 miles which could be charged on a typical 15 amp 120 volt circuit would be practical. A $60K one capable of carrying 1500 pounds at 100 MPH with all the bells and whistles one expects to find in a mid level auto today that requires a 40 amp, 240 volt charger 5-10 hourd a day to go 200 - 300 miles is not. The problem is very few people are willing or can afford to have several vehicles around for specific uses...we need one that 90% of the time carries us 20-30 miles to commute, 10-20 miles to run errands, 300 miles a couple of times a year for vacations etc and maybe haul a boat or camper to the lake. For some an EV may fit the bill perfectly, for many it wont.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:35 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
how many perform in rough winter weather
That's something that is going to affect a whole lot of people, and no one really gives that part much consideration.
In addition to (huge) efficiency losses, all of the cabin heat comes from the battery too, which further reduces the range in the winter.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:35 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
From how many perform in rough winter weather here, I'll wait a decade or so.
Weather extremes is not going to be kind to any electrical device that is meant to be energy efficient....
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:37 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Yeah, I saw the video of the guy in the extreme cold last winter up north.. couldn't even get his car to start charging. Not sure how common or uncommon extreme temps are up north, but I'm fairly certain there would be problem areas every winter.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:40 pm to paperwasp
quote:
all of the cabin heat comes from the battery too, which further reduces the range in the winter.
That ain't good lol. Resistive heat is horribly inefficient. VW used to heat the cabin with captured heat from the exhuast system.....anyone who has ever been in an old beetle knows how well that worked LOL.
The AC in a car is also far less efficient that home AC. The heat in a car is HARD to overcome with an efficient exhange of gases.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:41 pm to ragincajun03
quote:
. A major factor in this decline in satisfaction was the inflationary rise in electricity prices, the study found.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:42 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:Do "most new car buyers" need towing capabilities?
$10K EV capable of carrying 1000 pounds at 35 MPH for 20-30 miles which could be charged on a typical 15 amp 120 volt circuit would be practical. A $60K one capable of carrying 1500 pounds at 100 MPH with all the bells and whistles one expects to find in a mid level auto today that requires a 40 amp, 240 volt charger 5-10 hourd a day to go 200 - 300 miles is not.
quote:But if most families have 2 cars and most families are commuters, would it not stand to reason that an EV is indeed practical for most new car buyers? That doesn't mean they buy 2 EVs, but it would be very much practical to have 1 EV for the around town stuff, and the 2nd car be an ICE vehicle for the vacations and hauling stuff.
we need one that 90% of the time carries us 20-30 miles to commute, 10-20 miles to run errands, 300 miles a couple of times a year for vacations etc and maybe haul a boat or camper to the lake. For some an EV may fit the bill perfectly, for many it wont.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 12:47 pm to shel311
quote:
Do "most new car buyers" need towing capabilities?
Noooo...not at all. The trouble is that the EVs they can buy, the ones that are available, all have way more towing capacity than they ever need....unless of course they need more to tow a camper or a boat occasionally and then none will do that effectively. The EVs that are available are more capable than most people will ever need in a commuter and with that extra capability comes a heaping pile of expense and inefficiencies that are wasted for most buyers.
quote:
But if most families have 2 cars and most families are commuters, would it not stand to reason that an EV is indeed practical for most new car buyers? That doesn't mean they buy 2 EVs, but it would be very much practical to have 1 EV for the around town stuff, and the 2nd car be an ICE vehicle for the vacations and hauling stuff.
I would suspect this is what most families will do...have one EV that is efficient and meets their needs 90% of the time and a second traditional vehicle which meets their needs 100% of the time. Most folks do that now with regular vehicles. The trouble is that most families will also expect the EV to function as the regular vehicle, with all the bells and whistles, and with those expectations the costs are going to be significantly higher initially and comparable in operating costs over a 5 year or so period. The cost difference initially is impractical, in my opinion.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 12:50 pm
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