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re: Did Madoff's wife and kids know about the scheme
Posted on 1/16/23 at 12:54 pm to Basura Blanco
Posted on 1/16/23 at 12:54 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
As if those dudes would let in a Jew.
They let Paul Finebaum in.
0
Posted on 1/16/23 at 12:54 pm to danilo
quote:
One theory was his market making business would just intercept info on future trades and his trading operations would adjust accordingly. Appears he just simply stopped trading at some point and went full ponzi.
On the ponzi side they would literally created fraudulent paper on previous trades to show to their clients.
The gains were linear over decades.
The whistleblower that was complaining to the SEC about the ponzi told the SEC that the recorded trades by Madoff were fake because there were no counter parties for the other side of the trade. The SEC still looked the other way.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 12:57 pm to tigafan4life
quote:
She prob had no reason to ever think he was a liar and thief and just thought he was amazingly great at his job
No way she's that naive. She was with him a virtual lifetime of adulthood.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:06 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No way she's that naive. She was with him a virtual lifetime of adulthood.
She did all their personal finances too. The documentary made it seem like she was by his side whenever he made deals in Palm Beach and in Europe. I'm in the camp that she knew.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:06 pm to Gee Grenouille
quote:
Wife and the remaining living son say they had no idea. What says the OT?
Had no idea that it was 100% a full blown ponzi scheme? I believe only a few select people knew Madoff had literally not made a single trade on the investment advisory side (ponzi scheme company) since the early '90s.
The bullshite in all of this is the pretense that 80-90% of his individual investors didnt know that he was at LEAST involved in something illegal. These investors weren't complete mom and pop morons as they have been portrayed. They had to be fairly wealthy to even get an invite into Madoff's realm and knew for years/decades what the market return average was and therefore knew that beating that average every year four and five fold was just not possible in a legal manner.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:08 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
These investors weren't complete mom and pop morons as they have been portrayed.
They were getting their 1% per month with fake statements about the trades and that kept almost all of them happy.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:09 pm to Gee Grenouille
Kids are a no. Wife had to know something was up.
What makes that whole story so bad is the SEC was tipped off and did nothing.
What makes that whole story so bad is the SEC was tipped off and did nothing.
This post was edited on 1/16/23 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:10 pm to GumboPot
quote:
She did all their personal finances too. The documentary made it seem like she was by his side whenever he made deals in Palm Beach and in Europe. I'm in the camp that she knew.
I have no doubt she knew. Maybe not the depth of it, but she damn well had a clue.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:15 pm to GumboPot
quote:
They were getting their 1% per month with fake statements about the trades and that kept almost all of them happy.
To run any ponzi scheme, especially one of this magnitude it requires you to have the majority of the "investors" be some extremely greedy fricks whose greed is so great, it clouds their common sense. The only difference between them and the people who fall for the Nigerian prince email scam is that their level of wealth and education blinds them to the fact they are too dumb to realize they aren't smart enough to recognize a scam.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I have no doubt she knew. Maybe not the depth of it, but she damn well had a clue.
I don't know what Madoff was thinking. I guess after decades of a pretty successful ponzi he figured he could make it go for his entire life. He almost did but he was sure not considerate of others around him.
I wonder if he thought about unwinding the ponzi early on when he had only a couple of billion in the ponzi by declaring losses for a couple of years? He probably could have walked away with 100 million or so "legally" with a terrible reputation.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:18 pm to Auburn80
quote:
What makes that whole story so bad is the SEC was tipped off and did nothing.
i get that it was a good ole boy club and they were friends with madoff. I don't know if i buy it was that simple.
How does 19 billion go thru a bank account and no one say anything about it?
Seems like it would be ripe for conspiracy theories, yet when you google Madoff Conspiracy theories all you get is a bunch of ADL articles about anti-Semitism.
Personally, i can't imagine the stress Madoff was living with. I fricked up an important account at my old job and they owed us a 10k or so that we were never going to see. I didn't sleep well for months trying to fix that. How does one live with a 19 billion shoe about to drop?
This post was edited on 1/16/23 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:21 pm to GumboPot
quote:
I wonder if he thought about unwinding the ponzi early on when he had only a couple of billion in the ponzi by declaring losses for a couple of years? He probably could have walked away with 100 million or so "legally" with a terrible reputation.
I think at some point, the money became almost irrelevant to him and he was such a narcissist that he couldn't comprehend losing his reputation as the smartest guy in the room. By all accounts, he was very giving of his actual money in order to ensure people liked him.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:22 pm to Gee Grenouille
The wife fought like a tiger to keep the stolen money. frick her.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:22 pm to Gee Grenouille
How hard is it for people to hide $1000 from their wife? Now try, what was it $60 billion or some crazy shite?
I'm not saying they had a part in it, but if they're saying they didn't know about the money, they're full of shite.
I think some of the stories I've seen about it are fairly dishonest with essentially trying to lay the blame on 3 people, Madoff and 2 shady accountants and the people Madoff hired to work on the 17th floor of his building. In my mind, it takes a lot more people to steal that much money than essentially 3 people (they claim the other employees were just low totem pole people that Madoff hired bc they wouldn't ask questions). It wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot more people involved than the ones we know about.
I'm not saying they had a part in it, but if they're saying they didn't know about the money, they're full of shite.
I think some of the stories I've seen about it are fairly dishonest with essentially trying to lay the blame on 3 people, Madoff and 2 shady accountants and the people Madoff hired to work on the 17th floor of his building. In my mind, it takes a lot more people to steal that much money than essentially 3 people (they claim the other employees were just low totem pole people that Madoff hired bc they wouldn't ask questions). It wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot more people involved than the ones we know about.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:22 pm to Basura Blanco
quote:
The only difference between them and the people who fall for the Nigerian prince email scam is that their level of wealth and education blinds them to the fact they are too dumb to realize they aren't smart enough to recognize a scam.
Two things gave these investor confidence:
1. They were members of this exclusive Jewish club. A Jew wouldn't screw over a fellow Jew.
2. The SEC investigated his firm but they appeared to only do a cursory dive into his business practices. The legit market making side of his business where they were only making a few million a year seemed to provide camouflage for the ponzi that was taking place on the other floor. Anyway, after the SEC investigated and did nothing, on the outside it appeared like Madoff was clean and money then really flowed into the ponzi. Madoff used the successful SEC investigation as a marketing tool to get more ponzi money. The SEC finding nothing gave investors a lot of confidence in Madoff.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:25 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
Now try, what was it $60 billion or some crazy shite?
I believe the real amount was $19 billion. The rest was fake gains.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:28 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
It wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot more people involved than the ones we know about.
I believe the first "investors" were in on the ponzi because they bailed him out a couple of times when too many investors wanted out. I'm sure those early investors made their money back and some off the new comers like that French billionaire that slit his wrist right after Madoff was caught.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:31 pm to Gee Grenouille
The mere fact that none of his remaining have claimed his ashes is pretty telling. I don't think they knew.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:33 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
i get that it was a good ole boy club and they were friends with madoff. I don't know if i buy it was that simple
The SEC as a whole was a group of Beta lemmings to the extreme. Consider, every person in their professional realm, their peers, were making generational wealth...eight to ten times what they made. And they were happy with that in order to have the job security and stress free existence a governmental position provided. The last thing they wanted to do was lose that status/comfort level by rocking the boat. Even with average intelligence and a hint of backbone, they would've been on Wall Street, not DC.
Posted on 1/16/23 at 1:40 pm to Basura Blanco
Harry Markopolos,in his book said some of the SEC investigators would interview Madoff and leave with an employment application .
Few planned to work for SEC long term.They would do it a few years for the experience and then get a corporate job as a compliance officer.
Few planned to work for SEC long term.They would do it a few years for the experience and then get a corporate job as a compliance officer.
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