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re: Delphi, IN Murders Trial Thread
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:22 pm to Gris Gris
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:22 pm to Gris Gris
quote:
It was admissible. Here's a long detailed summary of her testimony from this morning.
Biggest question is was his confession to the psychologist about "cut necks" before or after police showed him crime scene images?
1
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:24 pm to baldona
I just have one question, and I'm sorry if this has been discussed previously. Has this guy ever been convicted of any type of sexual or violent crime in the past? Ever arrested for violent behavior? I'm curious, because it seems he would most certainly have been on LE radar if that had been the case. You don't start by killing 2 young girls. Every serial killer ever has had some sort of criminal history save, maybe BTK. Sorry in advance if this has been covered.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:24 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
Biggest question is was his confession to the psychologist about "cut necks" before or after police showed him crime scene images?
Didn't that happen before he was incarcerated? Also, I don't know when he invoked his right to counsel, but once he did, they couldn't show him anything unless he agreed to speak with them. I haven't seen anything indicating he was interviewed by police after the last interrogation on the day of his arrest. I could have missed something, though.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:30 pm to IlikeyouBetty
quote:
I just have one question, and I'm sorry if this has been discussed previously. Has this guy ever been convicted of any type of sexual or violent crime in the past? Ever arrested for violent behavior? I'm curious, because it seems he would most certainly have been on LE radar if that had been the case. You don't start by killing 2 young girls. Every serial killer ever has had some sort of criminal history save, maybe BTK. Sorry in advance if this has been covered.
No, I don't think he's been arrested for any sort of violent crime in the past.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:39 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
No, I don't think he's been arrested for any sort of violent crime in the past
If this is truly the case, then I don't know how this could be the guy. There would have been signs. They need to find witnesses that can attest to his erratic behavior before the murders. If I was on the jury, I would need to hear something that made me believe he snapped.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:45 pm to IlikeyouBetty
He said he had a sexual addiction or he is alleged to have said that, though there doesn't appear to be evidence of a sexual assault on either girl, as I recall. I'm wondering if they found anything related to that on his phones or computer.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:59 pm to Gris Gris
Have they mentioned when the state is predicted to rest it's case?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:54 pm to baldona
quote:
I've seen multiple reports that he seems to act crazy basically to get attention. When someone is watching he has acted crazy and then basically when they left the room, he stops....
If the prosecution can make an ironclad case for this, it may be pivotal and secure a guilty verdict.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:02 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
Have they mentioned when the state is predicted to rest it's case?
I haven't seen anything.
I believe it was mentioned in some testimony that he would stop acting crazy when no one was watching. The psychologist may have also testified to that this morning.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:32 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
If the prosecution can make an ironclad case for this, it may be pivotal and secure a guilty verdict.
I don't know because based on the transcripts of his police interrogations he didn't seem crazy or in a bad mental state. If he was acting crazy in solitary confinement when people were around but not when they weren't it could've been a ploy to get out of his extremely long solitary confinement.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:22 pm to IlikeyouBetty
quote:
No, I don't think he's been arrested for any sort of violent crime in the past
Not arrested, but the cops were called to their house sometime in ‘15 for a domestic disturbance. He wasn’t arrested—wife didn’t want to press charges—but he was shite-houses and she was advised to take him to the hospital, where I think he was admitted to the psych ward.
quote:
There would have been signs.
That was one. I’m sure there were more that just happened in private, not public. We don’t know what goes on behind closed doors in people’s homes.
quote:
If I was on the jury, I would need to hear something that made me believe he snapped.
Does his own confession of doing just that not count? He mentioned to the police and the psychologist that he had been suicidal for at least a couple of years before the murders. The psychologist testified this morning that his 1st confession to her said he was at his parents’ house that morning, they wanted to go eat lunch, he declined, picked up a 6-pack(he was an alcoholic, maybe in recovery at the time, so likely some self-loathing), drove home to “bundle up” and get his gun, went to the trail, followed the girls across the bridge, ordered them “down the hill” with the intention of raping them, did something with his gun that must have been when the bullet ejected (paraphrasing, not sure where he was exactly when that happened), made them undress and was about to rape them when a white van drove by and spooked him, so he made them cross the creek to where the crime scene eventually wound up, I think he said (whether he meant it or not, who knows) that he realized they were younger than he thought, so he decided not to rose them and just killed them. Stayed there long enough to make sure they were dead and left.
Lots of other details about finding Jesus and his state of mind and whatnot, but that’s pretty much what he said about that day. Seemed liked he was saying he snapped due to something that happened or was said at his parents’ place and that made him decide to get the booze or getting the booze made him snap (maybe he was mad at himself for being weak or something) and decided to take it out on somebody that day, and the opportunity unfortunately presented itself. I think he told somebody at some point he had gone out there to kill himself at least once or twice.
Whether or not any of that is true, I don’t know. But she testified he said it, so we—and the jury—can do with that what we will. But there’s more confessions to come for sure.
His wife has been there everyday and was noticeably sobbing yesterday and at least this morning. I think his sister has been there too, and his dad off and on. Mom had surgery recently or something and can’t go.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:35 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Does his own confession of doing just that not count? He mentioned to the police and the psychologist that he had been suicidal for at least a couple of years before the murders. The psychologist testified this morning that his 1st confession to her said he was at his parents’ house that morning, they wanted to go eat lunch, he declined, picked up a 6-pack(he was an alcoholic, maybe in recovery at the time, so likely some self-loathing), drove home to “bundle up” and get his gun, went to the trail, followed the girls across the bridge, ordered them “down the hill” with the intention of raping them, did something with his gun that must have been when the bullet ejected (paraphrasing, not sure where he was exactly when that happened), made them undress and was about to rape them when a white van drove by and spooked him, so he made them cross the creek to where the crime scene eventually wound up, I think he said (whether he meant it or not, who knows) that he realized they were younger than he thought, so he decided not to rose them and just killed them. Stayed there long enough to make sure they were dead and left.
Lots of other details about finding Jesus and his state of mind and whatnot, but that’s pretty much what he said about that day. Seemed liked he was saying he snapped due to something that happened or was said at his parents’ place and that made him decide to get the booze or getting the booze made him snap (maybe he was mad at himself for being weak or something) and decided to take it out on somebody that day, and the opportunity unfortunately presented itself. I think he told somebody at some point he had gone out there to kill himself at least once or twice.
Whether or not any of that is true, I don’t know. But she testified he said it, so we—and the jury—can do with that what we will. But there’s more confessions to come for sure.
His wife has been there everyday and was noticeably sobbing yesterday and at least this morning. I think his sister has been there too, and his dad off and on. Mom had surgery recently or something and can’t go.
Yeah. I didn't know any of that, so that does change things somewhat. It's still a leap for me to think that this could be his first killing, but stranger things have happened. I guess we will see what the jury thinks. I'd still want a little more from the Prosecution, but if what you typed is true, then I could see that swaying the jury to their side. It will be interesting.
I have really no dog in this fight. Just trying to look at it from an outsiders perspective. I just hope they get/got the right guy.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:35 pm to Gris Gris
quote:
He said he had a sexual addiction or he is alleged to have said that, though there doesn't appear to be evidence of a sexual assault on either girl, as I recall.
Like I said, he told the psychologist that he intended to rape them and got spooked by the van and I guess didn’t feel like he had time. He also told her he was a victim of sexual abuse as a kid himself. Again, is that true? No idea. That—and even the booze—could have been lies he told her to assuage his guilt. shite, the sexual assault could have been a lie he told himself to be able to deal with what he did. Told it to himself so much, he actually believed it. Or his dad could have molested him on the reg.
All that is interesting to be able to understand the brain of a person who could do such a heinous thing. But at the end of the day, regarding this trial, none of it really matters. Did he kill the girls and will the state have proven beyond a reasonable doubt to those particular 12 jurors. They may have a higher or lower threshold than all of us for what they consider “reasonable” or not.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:50 pm to IlikeyouBetty
quote:
No, I don't think he's been arrested for any sort of violent crime in the past
If this is truly the case, then I don't know how this could be the guy.
I’ve thought a good bit about that and it bugs me as well. That said I don’t think this was premeditated.
It sounds like the guy went out there a good bit. Like once a month. Probably just wanting to be alone with nature and clear his head. One of the things I find unusual is how many teenage girls went out there and I highly doubt it was for the same reasons as him. Probably more to get away from parents and adults in general. And I bet that aggravated him to no end. He was the “creepy guy” to them.
It’s speculated he walks past them first on the bridge and then he turns around and heads back towards them which is when the video starts. And I think Libby knew that wasn’t good which is why she starts filming it. There was either a prior conversation and/or at least one of the girls (likely Libby) said something as he was walking away from them which really set him off. Likely Libby because she was older and had the most trauma done to her. But also because she was the one left naked.
I don’t think he planned for any sexual assault in his fit of rage but if he did he may have thought more of it and determined that would be the surest way to get caught. Another possibility is he was planning to do more but simply lost the stomach for it by that time, whether it would have been before or after he killed one or both.
He may have just had them remove their clothes to make it harder for them to get away. Certainly removing the shoes would do that but imagine being naked running through thick brush. But also he may have just wanted to humiliate them, especially Libby, because he let Abby throw on some clothes before he killed her and she certainly looks like the younger of the two if he considered such things.
So I think he just snapped and even if he had second thoughts about it he knew he had already gone too far by then. Once that gun came out it was armed kidnapping and he had to shut them up.
It may have even crossed his mind that doing all that that would keep people from going out there anymore and he’d finally have some peace.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 6:40 pm to WestSideTiger
From the summaries I've read, I don't think the defense did as good a job with today's witnesses as they have with some others. The confession testimony is pretty damning. I expect the recorded calls may come in tomorrow. I hope so.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 7:01 pm to Gris Gris
I would recommend the Hidden True Podcast. It’s a wife and husband who’s a clinical psychologist. They have theories (she thinks he did it), BUT, she has decided to not editorialize the trial and just play it like a journalist. Mainly because of the lack of transparency with no cameras or audio recordings.
So she takes notes all day, then does a live stream going over them strictly as facts. She does look at some of the family members and jurors and says what she observes, but doesn’t opine on what any of it means. And multiple people have said she takes the best notes of any of the YouTubers there. And what she doesn’t get, she tries to get from others to make sure she’s giving accurate information.
She just started a stream 15 minutes ago or something, but doesn’t take questions until she’s gone over all the notes. So it’s just the facts as she observed and recorded them each day.
So she takes notes all day, then does a live stream going over them strictly as facts. She does look at some of the family members and jurors and says what she observes, but doesn’t opine on what any of it means. And multiple people have said she takes the best notes of any of the YouTubers there. And what she doesn’t get, she tries to get from others to make sure she’s giving accurate information.
She just started a stream 15 minutes ago or something, but doesn’t take questions until she’s gone over all the notes. So it’s just the facts as she observed and recorded them each day.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 7:28 pm to Hot Carl
I've been watching Lawyer Lee. I don't know what to think.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 7:34 pm to Hot Carl
22 minutes in and during his 1st confession, he admits to having a sex addiction that began/manifested with his molesting his sister when they were young and “experimenting” on/with other neighborhood kids.
She was asked if she encouraged him to talk about the case to her, and she said the opposite, she discouraged him because it could come back and bite him because whatever he told her wasn’t protected and could be used in court. Said he came off as pretty intelligent and definitely was smart enough to comprehend the potential consequences.
He told her straight up he killed them. He had planned on raping them, but thought they were 18 or 19, but when they undressed, he saw they were younger than he thought, one possibly as young as 11 and decided to just kill them. Again, that may have been a lie, but it’s what he said. Then said he was so selfish and had been selfish all his life, so he took theirs to protect his. But he did stay there long enough to make sure they were dead “so they wouldn’t suffer.”
Then he reported “taking God into his heart,” quoting Psalms and witnessing to her, asking about her own faith. He had already asked to speak to a chaplain and for a Bible.
And this is just getting started. Oh, he was in a pen even though he hadn’t been convicted, but it was mainly due to his own protection and observation that he wouldn’t be able to get from the regular county jail. But he was given more stuff like a tablet and books from the beginning that other inmates didn’t. I guess they had to earn them through good behavior. So he was being treated relatively well, considering. And he told her that even though the circumstances were terrible, it was the happiest/most peaceful he’d ever been or been in a long time.
I’m starting to think that his confessions don’t need to have any details of things “only the killer would know.” They, so far, don’t seem coerced and kinda speak for themselves. We’ll see how the cross went, though. I’m not sure when that started, but she hasn’t gotten therrr yet.
She was asked if she encouraged him to talk about the case to her, and she said the opposite, she discouraged him because it could come back and bite him because whatever he told her wasn’t protected and could be used in court. Said he came off as pretty intelligent and definitely was smart enough to comprehend the potential consequences.
He told her straight up he killed them. He had planned on raping them, but thought they were 18 or 19, but when they undressed, he saw they were younger than he thought, one possibly as young as 11 and decided to just kill them. Again, that may have been a lie, but it’s what he said. Then said he was so selfish and had been selfish all his life, so he took theirs to protect his. But he did stay there long enough to make sure they were dead “so they wouldn’t suffer.”
Then he reported “taking God into his heart,” quoting Psalms and witnessing to her, asking about her own faith. He had already asked to speak to a chaplain and for a Bible.
And this is just getting started. Oh, he was in a pen even though he hadn’t been convicted, but it was mainly due to his own protection and observation that he wouldn’t be able to get from the regular county jail. But he was given more stuff like a tablet and books from the beginning that other inmates didn’t. I guess they had to earn them through good behavior. So he was being treated relatively well, considering. And he told her that even though the circumstances were terrible, it was the happiest/most peaceful he’d ever been or been in a long time.
I’m starting to think that his confessions don’t need to have any details of things “only the killer would know.” They, so far, don’t seem coerced and kinda speak for themselves. We’ll see how the cross went, though. I’m not sure when that started, but she hasn’t gotten therrr yet.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:20 pm to Demshoes
quote:
This is pretty devastating for Allen
I’m pretty confident:
1) Allen did it and did it alone
2) the jury will find him guilty
I’m NOT sure however, whether he should spend the rest of his life in the pen or the some psych hospital. I’m sure both will suck. (This isn’t a capital case, is it? For some reason, I thought I heard that a while back).
3) this whole thing sucks for everyone involved. I obviously feel worse for the girls and their families, but it sucks for Allen’s wife, his daughter, his parents, and just the whole fricking town of Delphi. Hell, the whole state. And I have a tiny bit of compassion for Allen himself. Had to have a terrible childhood, couldn’t be easy being such a short man battling depression and suicidal tendencies most of his life.
I mean, I have a young daughter, so frick him and may he burn in hell for all eternity. On 1 hand. But I’m not sure people are born evil, and that the cyclical nature of this shite is just inevitable and there’s nothing we can do about it. I don’t know. Some of these cases just fascinate me sometimes. And I think part of it is the battle between the inevitableness and helplessness of them and the alternative thought that they could somehow be prevented somewhere along the way. The nature of man. We are quite the creatures.
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