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re: Delphi, IN Murders Trial Thread
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:43 am to Gris Gris
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:43 am to Gris Gris
quote:
I don't think they knew who he was until he called in, right?
Correct. The witness who was over the tips database said that none of the other tips (tens of thousands of them) mentioned Richard Allen.
If he would have not self-reported, there is a very good chance he would have never been on LE's radar (especially now that we know that there is no DNA or physical evidence that would have led them to him).
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 10:46 am
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Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:00 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Who? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just unfamiliar with what you’re referring to.
I'll have to search out for the specific names of the witnesses, but as an example you can just look at the second sketch that the police put out. It looks nothing like Richard Allen and was based on the description of the witnesses, who said the guy was young, had curly hair that stuck out below a hat, and was taller than the witness (who was 5'7). If you want more specifics of the witness I can search it out.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:26 am to POTUS2024
quote:
This guy might be guilty but no evidence exists as of now.
The unspent shell casing is much better evidence than some of you are making it out to be. And it just might be the only physical evidence that will place Allen at the murder scene so it shouldn’t be downplayed or dismissed without an attempt at understanding.
This isn’t exactly new ballistic science that’s being used here. It’s just somewhat more unique in this situation because the gun wasn’t fired. But it’s still used in the same manner as matching the shell casings to a gun that has been fired. In their testing they actually fired the weapon as well for 4 of the 10 samples. This shell did lack the firing pin marking and besides the rifling striations on the projectile that’s all that’s missing. So let’s say in a situation the bullet can’t be found you still have 2 of the 3 markings remaining for matching the shell casings to the weapon - extraction and ejection markings (no firing pin mark).
There’s even a National database of these various markings from shells collected by LE around the country. In this case alone there was enough specificity that 8 total guns were tested during the course of this investigation and only the one matched (as well as confirmed by a second specialist).
And that is on top of the strong circumstantial evidence already implicating him with so much opportunity for any minute detail to show he couldn’t have done it yet that remains unproduced.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:32 am to Gris Gris
quote:
I don't think they knew who he was until he called in, right?
I’m not sure it really matters relative to his guilt or not, but I think some of this was cleared up yesterday afternoon. Girls go missing on the 13th. Bodies found on the 14th. Pic of Bridge Guy released on 15th (not sure if in that morning’s paper or on website/news later in day) asking for him(guy in pic) to come forward because he may have seen something. On the 16th, Allen goes to police station on his own. Not sure if he called the tip line and they asked him to come in or if he never even called tip line and that just a false rumor.
He goes to police station and the person he needed to speak to (maybe he had talked to somebody on the phone and they requested he come in) wasn’t there, so he left. Guy/officer calls him in his car, says he’s back at the station, and could Allen come back. Allen said he had somewhere to be, couldn’t come back, but could meet him in a grocery store parking lot. Guy/officer meets him there.
I’m sure they both got out of their cars and talked for a few minutes. To POTUS2024, you’re right that physical signs of the girls fighting back or a struggle of any kind would likely have been seen on his hands, if anywhere. But they said the 13th was unseasonably warm, and it was still in the low 50s. If it was any colder during this meeting—or even if it wasn’t and Allen had scratches all over his hands—I’m betting he was smart enough to have on gloves. It was Indiana in mid-February—nobody would have thought that strange.
So Allen tells the guy he was there from about 12-1:30. They knew from Libby’s phone that they were still alive at sometime after 2. So, the guy took his story and they both went on their merry ways. 2 things probably helped Allen during that interaction:
1) I think the police were focusing on Ron Logan at that time. He was much more likely suspect. Perhaps they were too tunnel-visioned on him, but I don’t think they were thinking Allen was possibly Bridge Guy at the time, just hoped he had actually witnessed something.
2) I think they thought Bridge Guy was taller. Back to Gray Hughes—again, he’s an ornery a-hole sometimes with an off-putting sense of humor—but he’s really good with his computer tools. He used some of them to try to figure out Bridge Guy’s height and determined it was somewhere around 5’3” or 5’4”. Supposedly he tried to get that information to the authorities, but they waved it off a couple of times, according to him. They thought he was at least 5’8”. I don’t know if they had come to that conclusion by the time these 2 met in the grocery store parking lot, but it would also help explain why they weren’t looking harder at him considering he was there. Said he’d already left before the girls got there, was way shorter than they thought Bridge Guy was, and they were focusing mostly on Ron Logan at the time. All that probably lead to a shorter meeting between the 2, and why that interaction didn’t stick out and it took 5 years to come back around to.
Not a great look for LE, but they were likely undermanned and overwhelmed in the very beginning until other agencies got involved and brought more manpower. If it had been an FBI investigator or an Indiana Sate Police investigator instead of a Wildlife and Fisheries guy, maybe they pick up on something more and take more note of it and it doesn’t slip through the cracks.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:36 am to WestSideTiger
quote:
The unspent shell casing is much better evidence than some of you are making it out to be. And it just might be the only physical evidence that will place Allen at the murder scene so it shouldn’t be downplayed or dismissed without an attempt at understanding.
This isn’t exactly new ballistic science that’s being used here. It’s just somewhat more unique in this situation because the gun wasn’t fired. But it’s still used in the same manner as matching the shell casings to a gun that has been fired. In their testing they actually fired the weapon as well for 4 of the 10 samples. This shell did lack the firing pin marking and besides the rifling striations on the projectile that’s all that’s missing. So let’s say in a situation the bullet can’t be found you still have 2 of the 3 markings remaining for matching the shell casings to the weapon - extraction and ejection markings (no firing pin mark).
There’s even a National database of these various markings from shells collected by LE around the country. In this case alone there was enough specificity that 8 total guns were tested during the course of this investigation and only the one matched (as well as confirmed by a second specialist).
And that is on top of the strong circumstantial evidence already implicating him with so much opportunity for any minute detail to show he couldn’t have done it yet that remains unproduced.
They only used the spent casings for comparison because the unspent casings didn't match
ETA: It's junk science akin to bite mark comparison
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 11:37 am
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:45 am to baldona
quote:
Once again, who else was there?
Multiple witnesses have stated that multiple cars were there and people out and about. I've seen nothing suggesting that those girls and Allen were the only people around. Also, descriptions of Bridge Guy are not at all like Allen. Either people fabricated their descriptions or there are multiple people. Even one of the LE people that testified said descriptions did not match Allen.
quote:
You are making things up for some reason?
Go watch those long arse Andrea Burkhart videos and get back to me on this.
quote:
You keep saying the police focused on him and didn’t look elsewhere
I didn't say this. What I'm saying is that when they targeted him, they didn't have sufficient evidence to establish guilt (that we've seen thus far) and their shoddy work is leaving the door open to a lot of alternative explanations - which they have not properly addressed, and never did. This matters when the burden is beyond a reasonable doubt. Case in point is the blood spatter stuff. No one on the scene. No video. Just photos. And guess what, the spatter expert said multiple killers is a possibility based on what he saw. That is amateur hour stuff. How do you not put someone on that scene to look at this stuff, where two little girls were killed?
I'm adamant about all of this because they have not provided anything convincing regarding his guilt (thus far) which means the real killer(s) are still out there and other children are in danger. The investigative team has been clowned so far by the defense. That is not a good sign.
quote:
The biggest LE screw up was not interrogating Allen within days of the murders and everyone else that was there on site that day that day. I’m somewhat perplexed why he was never brought in if he was in fact only interviewed by a fish and game officer outside of a police station.
I'm at a loss on this as well.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:08 pm to WestSideTiger
quote:
The unspent shell casing is much better evidence than some of you are making it out to be. And it just might be the only physical evidence that will place Allen at the murder scene so it shouldn’t be downplayed or dismissed without an attempt at understanding.
This isn’t exactly new ballistic science that’s being used here. It’s just somewhat more unique in this situation because the gun wasn’t fired. But it’s still used in the same manner as matching the shell casings to a gun that has been fired. In their testing they actually fired the weapon as well for 4 of the 10 samples. This shell did lack the firing pin marking and besides the rifling striations on the projectile that’s all that’s missing. So let’s say in a situation the bullet can’t be found you still have 2 of the 3 markings remaining for matching the shell casings to the weapon - extraction and ejection markings (no firing pin mark).
There’s even a National database of these various markings from shells collected by LE around the country. In this case alone there was enough specificity that 8 total guns were tested during the course of this investigation and only the one matched (as well as confirmed by a second specialist).
And that is on top of the strong circumstantial evidence already implicating him with so much opportunity for any minute detail to show he couldn’t have done it yet that remains unproduced.
My sense from watching and listening to the people that were in the courtroom is that this stuff did not move the jury very much. Comparing fired casings to unfired rounds is ridiculous. The jury had a specific question about that. The action of the weapon under the different circumstances will create different marks because the forces / velocities are different and the expert admitted to this - she also admitted that her work is subjective and there is no "confirmation" in a hard, quantitative sense, or in the sense that finger prints are matched, and so forth.
You will find 19 different weapons on Glock's website right now, for .40 S&W. Yes, I know there will still be a lot of commonality, but that's just one manufacturer. The fact they only tested 8 is not very exhaustive, particularly when the circumstances differ from the item being compared.
.40 is very common as is the Sig P226.
I expected this evidence to hit a lot harder than it did, but it didn't seem to move the needle much.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:09 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Pic of Bridge Guy released on 15th
I did a quick look at this, and best I can tell is one of the Bridge Guy's sketches is of the guy on the snapchat video and that looks a lot like Allen. So it seems like there maybe some confusion here. But at least one sketch released by police labeled "bridge guy" is of the guy on the video, which DOES match Allen's description.
This is a very small town. Most if not all of the people there that day likely lived close by. I'm somewhat shocked that they weren't able to verify almost everyone there. If they have Allen's vehicle on video, why could they not get a better idea of everyone there?
If someone that was verified by multiple people was not there, I'd think they would have tried to narrow that down better. Or the defense could point that out in the least that there's still an unnamed person at large.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:42 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
They only used the spent casings for comparison because the unspent casings didn't match
You don’t think they tested all the guns the same way? Notice the defense never requested it be tested against more guns or even against the National database. You know why?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:49 pm to WestSideTiger
quote:
You don’t think they tested all the guns the same way? Notice the defense never requested it be tested against more guns or even against the National database. You know why?
All 8 guns?
The fact is that they are comparing apples to oranges with unspent rounds vs a spent round.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:59 pm to Gris Gris
quote:
RA's correctional facility psychologist is on the stand.
Is a psychologist's testimony not inadmissible? He confessed to the psychologist apparently? Seems fairly clear?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:02 pm to WestSideTiger
quote:
Notice the defense never requested it be tested against more guns or even against the National database. You know why?
The defense got a flawed presentation from the prosecution - why would they seek anything further?
Watched the WTHR video just now. Without an adjudication of guilt, they locked this guy in a maximum security prison and correctional officers, well, one of them, testified that he could look in someone's eyes and tell they are lying. Defense pounced on him and he started tap dancing. Absolute clown show. Credibility for everything the prosecution is putting up there is getting shredded.
When Allen appeared stable and denied the crime they didn't believe him - when he was locked up and allegedly went crazy, he made a bunch of confessions, and those statements they choose to believe.
Apparently when he's been locked up, he randomly got up and started jogging in place, singing, licking windows, drinking from the toilet, eating feces, jacked off and more. And confessions from that period of behavior is what they are going to run with. I don't know if this is going to work on the jury.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:05 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
Apparently when he's been locked up, he randomly got up and started jogging in place, singing, licking windows, drinking from the toilet, eating feces, jacked off and more. And confessions from that period of behavior is what they are going to run with. I don't know if this is going to work on the jury.
I've seen multiple reports that he seems to act crazy basically to get attention. When someone is watching he has acted crazy and then basically when they left the room, he stops....
ETA: again, I'm not on the jury trying to try the guy. I agree the evidence is questionable. But what I disagree with, is that there is any evidence that points to it being someone else. Or there is any evidence of all that someone else did it, not RA. There's very little evidence at all, and pretty much all of it points to RA.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:08 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
On the 16th, Allen goes to police station on his own. Not sure if he called the tip line and they asked him to come in or if he never even called tip line and that just a false rumor.
I was under the impression the officer met with him outside a grocery/ convenience store initially.
Only upon the secondary interview did he go to the cop station.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:14 pm to idlewatcher
Anyone know if his family is in the courtroom?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:15 pm to WestSideTiger
quote:
The unspent shell casing is much better evidence than some of you are making it out to be. And it just might be the only physical evidence that will place Allen at the murder scene so it shouldn’t be downplayed or dismissed without an attempt at understanding.
If the unspent shell casing was found by the bodies how did he rack his gun before telling them to go down the hill, as testified to by one of the LE guys?
Furthermore, do you know how many of the same exact gun are owned in America, and I'm sure in even Delphi, IN. Simply owning a gun that uses the same type of ammo as found at the scene is an absurd piece of evidence. That's without even going into the magic, pseudoscience of ballistic markings and comparing shot vs unshot rounds.
Did he do it? I don't know, I still lean towards more likely than not, but the state has done nothing to show he did and the single piece of ammo makes me less likely to believe he is the murderer.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:20 pm to Gris Gris
quote:
Anyone know if his family is in the courtroom?
His wife goes every day.
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