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re: Cops kill suicidal man threatening to light himself on fire

Posted on 12/14/17 at 7:07 am to
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53509 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 7:07 am to
The cop thought he had a knife? How convenient.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96270 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 7:37 am to
quote:

Cops shouldn't get involved in suicide attempt.


Now, I can't agree with this - someone looking to jump from a tall building, bridge, etc., constitutes a public safety hazard. Someone brandishing a weapon and threatening suicide? Same thing.

However, lethal force to prevent a suicide attempt seems like something out of a Terry Gilliam film or Joseph Heller novel - beyond crazy.
Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
68609 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 7:50 am to
quote:

At least now he has a chance at getting into heaven. Cops doing the Lords work.



Posted by GeauxGoose
Nonya
Member since Dec 2006
2697 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 8:04 am to
I wonder i life insurance still pays out when you are killed while trying to kill yourself?
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 8:11 am to
Csb: My dad had a guy that used to work at his office that tried to commit suicide via lighting himself on fire. He went up to the office one Sunday when nobody was there and poured fricking diesel all over himself. As soon as he was one big ball of flailing flame he regretted his decision, somehow got on a phone and called the ambulance. He lived.

He came back up to the office a few weeks later looking like Freddie Kruger. All the ladies were telling him how good he looked. And my dad’s buddy and another coworker were in one of the offices and the guy that was with my dad’s friend said “Oh my God man, you look horrible!”

Dad’s friend couldn’t stand it and had to turn around so the guy wouldn’t see him laughing.
Posted by Titan
Member since Apr 2008
2480 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 8:14 am to
lighter fluid lights much slower than gas. That would have been a slow painful death
Posted by FelicianaTigerfan
Comanche County
Member since Aug 2009
26059 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 8:19 am to
Suicide threats are always some of the worst calls to go on. You pray the person doesn't put you in the situation where you must use lethal force ( not situation posted in OP). There is also a huge amount of anxiety about how you will resolve the situation. Last thing you want to do is say something wrong that triggers the person to act on themselves or again, forcing you to act to protect others.

I hate situations like in the OP because it just makes all cops look like they are itching to put a bullet in a person. That's why I cringe at the tacti-cool new hires that think they are operators showing up to every call wearing shooting glasses and gloves. Its a disgrace and embarrassment to anyone that has chosen a career in LE because they actually wanted to help people.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96270 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

I hate situations like in the OP because it just makes all cops look like they are itching to put a bullet in a person. That's why I cringe at the tacti-cool new hires that think they are operators showing up to every call wearing shooting glasses and gloves. Its a disgrace and embarrassment to anyone that has chosen a career in LE because they actually wanted to help people.


The sentiments you echo (I have no law enforcement experience, if you don't count KFOR, but I have many, many friends and relatives who are/were cops) illustrate an ongoing problem - the profile of crime has so expanded in the 21st Century, particularly with terroristic components, you almost need 3 different police forces -

Force 1 - Community police and, heck, I don't know if they should even be in uniforms. Put them in polo shirts, bright colors, give them a radio and pocket pistol (maybe long guns in the vehicle). Have them out there, every day, communicating with the people, hearing their concerns, writing reports. Send these cats to domestic violence calls and suicide stuff (at least first, maybe have backup on the way). Send them to take reports of a crime that is already over. Have them as your school resource officers. Send them (first) to protests to make contact with the protest leaders - these are your friendly face cops. Unmarked cars - crossover SUVs, maybe even the little adorable hybrids that are non-threatening.

Force 2 - "regular" cops - maybe lightweight body armor, otherwise, full kit, cruiser, cuffs. These are guys who initially respond to burglary, robbery, attempted murder, plus your high visibility cops in high crime areas. A sign of "progress" for a community will be fewer of these and more Force 1 guys.

Force 3 - Tactical, civil unrest response and felony/high risk warrant service. These cats hit your drug labs, violent fugitives, and otherwise serve as your heavy duty. Keep them in cages until it's time to release them. Some of the more even tempered (or older/more experienced) can slide into Force 2 slots as needed, but training to adjust to their kit. "If you're wearing a badge and patrol uniform? Calm the frick down."

And we would have fewer problems with this kind of stuff, IMHO.
Posted by FelicianaTigerfan
Comanche County
Member since Aug 2009
26059 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 2:55 pm to
I see 2 problems with that

1) Funding. Many departments cant afford to offer good enough pay to get quality applicants. Much less turning uniform patrol into 3 different divisions.

2) Situations evolve many times before the first officer responds. Sending group 1 to a situation that by the time they get there you need 3 is recipe for disaster. Especially when time is critical.

That's why you need guys out there that can serve all 3 roles. Which isn't impossible but the mental drain of basically having to have multiple personalities is tough. Alpha type personalities that can go in high risk situations and take control without shitting their pants, then in a split second turn to a compassionate caring guy that's great at public relations.
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 2:56 pm to
How about use subdue instead of kill
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96270 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

1) Funding.


No question - my way is probably only available to larger departments.

quote:

Situations evolve many times before the first officer responds. Sending group 1 to a situation that by the time they get there you need 3 is recipe for disaster. Especially when time is critical.


quote:

That's why you need guys out there that can serve all 3 roles.


This is an example of "the perfect is the enemy of the good" - certainly sending Force 3 when Force 1 is called for is far, far more risky to the public. We see shite tons of that. Hopefully, we would educate Force 1 to not bite off more than they can chew. At least we have cops there to observe and give more information as additional forces roll in for an escalation.

What cops are bad at (particularly the Force 3 types) is de-escalation. If that skill was better demonstrated across a range of departments, then all cops could go all Force 3 and adjust if necessary. They can't/won't, thus my proposal.

Posted by Arkapigdiesel
Faulkner County
Member since Jun 2009
15773 posts
Posted on 12/14/17 at 3:18 pm to
Cops have such a thankless job.

My experience(s) in my 42 years of being on this earth is this.....if you do things that make other people call the cops on you, expect things to not go nicely. In other words, don't be a shite bag unproductive citizen.
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