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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:27 am to Pectus
quote:
You could take this scenario to more drastic acts and consequences and your reasoning falls apart.
But we arent talking about injecting heroin are we? We are talking about drinking a beer in high school.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:30 am
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:28 am to Pectus
I think there's a big difference between your 15 year old having a few beers with friends on a camping trip(social drinking) and locked in his room alone hammering vodka mid day.
I'd be way more concerned about one of those
I'd be way more concerned about one of those
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:28 am to dnm3305
quote:
So what youre telling me is that by raising their kids to not drink at age 15 like they surely did, they will somehow turn out better? Please, go on...
Some families like to have morals or certain standards. I know a lot of burnouts that started drinking in early high school. How many of those "early drinkers" are successful today? Very few. A handful, maybe.
The point is, there's just no need for it. Plus, it's illegal. Why wouldn't you want to correct that action? Or at least express that you think it's wrong?
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:28 am to dnm3305
So here's my analogy:
How do businesses prevail?
By making the same mistakes because they let employees make the same mistakes?
Or by setting up a service to train their employees to avoid mistakes?
By definition, it'd be hypocritical that you wouldn't want to help someone avoid a mistake. And if they made the mistake after all the training you can't get mad because, you being an early employee made that mistake.
EXCEPT
All that training. You can get mad and not be hypocritical.
You decide how you want to raise your kids and if you raise them better than your upbringing you're allowed to be mad that they made a mistake you made when you were trying to help them avoid it.
How do businesses prevail?
By making the same mistakes because they let employees make the same mistakes?
Or by setting up a service to train their employees to avoid mistakes?
By definition, it'd be hypocritical that you wouldn't want to help someone avoid a mistake. And if they made the mistake after all the training you can't get mad because, you being an early employee made that mistake.
EXCEPT
All that training. You can get mad and not be hypocritical.
You decide how you want to raise your kids and if you raise them better than your upbringing you're allowed to be mad that they made a mistake you made when you were trying to help them avoid it.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:29 am to Sev09
quote:
I know a lot of burnouts that started drinking in early high school.
I know a lot of drug addicts who played Pokemon cards. I know a Catholic Priest who really loved Mortal Kombat.
Causation =/= correlation.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:29 am to yellowfin
quote:
I think there's a big difference between your 15 year old having a few beers with friends on a camping trip(social drinking) and locked in his room alone hammering vodka mid day.
Bingo.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:30 am to dnm3305
quote:
We are talking about drinking a beer in high school
No, we aren't. The kid got into the vodka in the house.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:30 am to Pectus
quote:
How do businesses prevail?
By making the same mistakes because they let employees make the same mistakes?
Or by setting up a service to train their employees to avoid mistakes?
Great analogy. We learn to avoid mistakes from history and experience. If you, as a parent, feel that you made some mistakes when you were younger, why would you not be open and forthcoming about your feelings toward said action?
Just seems like parenting 101 to me...
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:32 am to VABuckeye
quote:
No, we aren't. The kid got into the vodka in the house.
See? That's not social drinking... That's an issue right there. Nip it in the bud.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:33 am to dnm3305
quote:
hypocrite
(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.
This is different and I explained it in an analogy.
And one thing you're not considering is the temporal separation between the adult when they were a teen and the teen now.
The definition implies both are concurrent. They are not in our case in this thread.
Again, the adult can decide how they want to raise their kid. Especially if they want them to have a better launching point than they by removing alcohol and risks from alcohol until a later age.
That's not being a hypocrite, it's being a good parent.
And like I said, if you expanded your reasoning to more hardcore actions like beating women, or unprotected sex, or worse you would see how your premise is wrong.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:35 am
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:35 am to Sev09
quote:
Some families like to have morals or certain standards. I know a lot of burnouts that started drinking in early high school. How many of those "early drinkers" are successful today? Very few. A handful, maybe.
Youve got to be fricking kidding me. I would garner that there are way more burnouts and college dropouts that couldnt handle the party once it hit them in the face and they were finally able to get off of momma's tit than there were kids that were taught to drink responsibly at age 15.
quote:
The point is, there's just no need for it
Like it or not, it's here. Like it or not, it's will always be socially acceptable because it always has been socially acceptable. Girls start getting tits in middle school, hormones start going crazy and then need to be/act like an adult arises. Have you forgotten what it's like to be 15? Kids will drink. Why not teach responsibility and expect/demand responsibility in return.
quote:
Or at least express that you think it's wrong?
Because it's not wrong. If the OP said he was hammering Jager from the bottle to look cool, then that's different, and a whole other lesson to be learned.
quote:
Why wouldn't you want to correct that action?
You sound like a gun control activist that just doesnt quite get it.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:37 am to Pectus
quote:
The definition implies both are concurrent. They are not in our case in this thread.
Well, OBVIOUSLY, it should have gone without saying, we are comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. We are comparing the parent and their mindset at age 15 to their child at age 15.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:38 am to Pectus
quote:
That's not being a hypocrite, it's being a good parent.
/discussion
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:38 am to dnm3305
quote:
quote:
You don't think he has already spoken to him? I am sure he lost it because he has spoken to him many times and his kid went off and did this. Its good to freak out, without any violence, and then once things calm down you have ANOTHER serious talk. I figured I would share since you seem to like giving parenting advice!
The thing is, all of that is irrelevant. No one should freak out about a 15 year old drinking. Period.
There are countries in this world where you can buy your child a beer with their Happy Meal from McDonald's, and America still thinks people shouldn't drink until they are 21.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:40 am to Sev09
quote:
How many of those "early drinkers" are successful today? Very few. A handful, maybe.
Couldnt be more wrong with this statement hahaha I have many many friends from LSU who are mechanical engineers, petroleum engineers, and geologists working in O&G (making big money) and almost all of them started drinking in high school. Now none of our parents pushed us to drink, but we all were curious high schoolers thinking we were bigger than our britches. We dabbled in it but never went overboard because our parents knew what was happening, but set rules about it, other than just saying its illegal.
ETA: If my kid got into my vodka stash, I'd ask him why and demand an honest answer. But then punish him for it. Probably make him take 4 or 5 shots. Let him puke it all up, then force him to do yard work or chores while hung over.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:47 am
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:40 am to Pectus
quote:
That's not being a hypocrite, it's being a good parent.
That's complete bullshite. Just because YOU think teaching kids/demanding kids to not drink is good parenting, doesnt make it so. In fact, I would bet the overwhelming majority believe the exact opposite of that. Teaching maturity, responsibility, accountability, respect, and independence is good parenting. Not having your boot on their neck the entire time they are growing and somehow hoping they blossom into that by chance.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:43 am
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:45 am to Charlie Arglist
I was getting shite faced all the time at 15 (mostly on weekends). Ended up graduating as valedictorian (as does everyone on the OT), multiple degrees from LSU etc.
Unless he's drinking in the morning and starts fricking up at school, don't worry about. It's just part of growing up......
Unless he's drinking in the morning and starts fricking up at school, don't worry about. It's just part of growing up......
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:45 am to dnm3305
quote:
Well, OBVIOUSLY, it should have gone without saying, we are comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. We are comparing the parent and their mindset at age 15 to their child at age 15.
But you don't keep that mindset into adulthood.
Maybe when he was a kid he didn't have good parents so he didn't know of the consequences of drinking.
Now he does, and he wants to make sure his kid doesn't drink as early as he did.
That's not being hypocritical. He's allowed to wish the best for his son.
Maybe the whole reason he blew up is because he had no parents leading him in a good direction, so he didn't know how to handle when his son did the same thing he did at an early age...but wanted so much more for his son.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:48 am to dnm3305
quote:
You sound like a gun control activist that just doesnt quite get it.
And YOU sound like one of those "cool", "hip" parents that let their kids run their lives.
I agree with your point about teaching maturity, responsibility, etc. But why would you wait until AFTER they screw their lives up to do so? You already have been that age before, gone through what they're going through, and made mistakes.
Being up front with your kids about the mistakes you've made and why they should avoid doing the same is good parenting. Saying otherwise is just asinine.
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