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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:47 am to Volvagia
quote:This is where you're not understanding the hypo. The plane cannot move forward. Thrust has been rendered irrelevant by the belt matching the speed of the wheels.
The wheels are irrelevant to the motion of the plane, because it is pushing against the air, not the ground. It doesn’t transition from pushing the ground to pushing the air. The only force imparted by the wheel is friction in the bearing, and it’s nowhere near enough to counter or even retard thrust.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:47 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
The answer is no.
Sidewalk status confirmed. Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:48 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Thrust has been rendered irrelevant by the belt matching the speed of the wheels.
Really hope you don't have an actual degree from A&MPosted on 4/11/24 at 9:49 am to aTmTexas Dillo
This is destined to be a classic OT thread...there are about a dozen different arguments / discussions going on in here and I'm not sure anyone knows what the hell they're arguing about.
So here's my two cents...the OP's post asks if a plane can take off if it's on a treadmill where the wheel speed matches the treadmill speed. I say no, there's no air flowing over the wings creating lift. Or, to put it another way: swap yourself for the plane on the treadmill...no matter how fast you set the speed, does air ever blow in your face? No matter how fast you flap your arms, you're never taking off.
So here's my two cents...the OP's post asks if a plane can take off if it's on a treadmill where the wheel speed matches the treadmill speed. I say no, there's no air flowing over the wings creating lift. Or, to put it another way: swap yourself for the plane on the treadmill...no matter how fast you set the speed, does air ever blow in your face? No matter how fast you flap your arms, you're never taking off.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:56 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Only if you don't understand how a plane moves
Hook up a speedometer on a bicycle. Put the bicycle on a treadmill. Set the treadmill to a set speed. Watch the speedometer on the bicycle as you push the bicycle forward on the treadmill with your hand.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:57 am to Dam Guide
quote:
Hook up a speedometer on a bicycle. Put the bicycle on a treadmill. Set the treadmill to a set speed. Watch the speedometer on the bicycle as you push the bicycle forward on the treadmill with your hand.
Put a jet pack and wings on the bicycle. Watch the bicycle fly.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:58 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Only if you don't understand how a plane moves
We understand how planes move. But again, there's no lift. Lift is what removes the planes mass from the wheels, without lift the wheels would be infinitely touching the ground.
Thrust is great, but it doesn't pick the plane off the ground. Thus off the wheels, thus off the conveyer belt.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:00 am to baldona
quote:
But again, there's no lift.
quote:FIFY
We don't understand how planes move
quote:
Thrust is great, but it doesn't pick the plane off the ground.
You really should just abandon the thread.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 10:01 am
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:02 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
You really should just abandon the thread.
Prove to us it will work. Please pass along your work. Or do an Einstein thought experiment and just write the prose.
Over and out. I have to drive to Houston. Will check back.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 10:03 am
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:02 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Prove to us it will work. Please pass along your work. Or do an Einstein thought experiment and just write the prose.
Whoever said yall are like flat earthers had it exactly right.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:03 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Put a jet pack and wings on the bicycle. Watch the bicycle fly.
Of course, because a jetpack easily has the force necessary to overcome a crappy running treadmill. Put an underpowered RC plane motor on it and watch it roll off the back of the treadmill if you set it high enough.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:07 am to baldona
quote:
Thrust is great, but it doesn't pick the plane off the ground. Thus off the wheels, thus off the conveyer belt.
Then I guess a plane flying at 25k ft has no way of climbing to 35k ft unless it can find a place to put its wheels first
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:07 am to Dam Guide
quote:
Of course, because a jetpack easily has the force necessary to overcome a crappy running treadmill. Put an underpowered RC plane motor on it and watch it roll off the back of the treadmill if you set it high enough.
So now we assume the plane is somehow underpowered, even though a 747 is capable of taking of flight with less than 4 engines
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:09 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
So now we assume the plane is somehow underpowered, even though a 747 is capable of taking of flight with less than 4 engines
No, again I am saying we cannot engineer something to exactly match speed. We are always playing catch up, so either we are taking off, rolling off the back, or breaking something. Question cannot be answered in the real world as written.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 10:11 am
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:09 am to FutureCorridor49
quote:
Then I guess a plane flying at 25k ft has no way of climbing to 35k ft unless it can find a place to put its wheels first
You realize a plane flying at 25k ft has lift right? Do you understand how stalling works?
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:10 am to baldona
quote:
You realize a plane flying at 25k ft has lift right? Do you understand how stalling works?
And what do planes use to keep from stalling.....
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:11 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
So now we assume the plane is somehow underpowered, even though a 747 is capable of taking of flight with less than 4 engines
You are right. I forgot that 747's are incredible and can take off vertical. The entire runway thing is just for show.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:11 am to baldona
quote:
You realize a plane flying at 25k ft has lift right? Do you understand how stalling works?
You’re so close…
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:12 am to Dam Guide
quote:
. Question cannot be answered in the real world as written.
It absolutely can. Draw a free body diagram of the plane. Draw all forces exerted on the plane along the X axis. Did you draw any horizontal forces caused by the wheels?
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