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Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:20 pm to Wolverine2Tiger94
quote:
My point was that it works fine for them from an opporational standpoint, and to ensure no hazing. You don't have to like it, but it does work.
Removing pledgeship does not work.
In the best case scenario, the immediately initiate kids then get stuck with bad apples who will inevitably cause trouble for them because they didn't have a pledgeship in which to further evaluate the kids. Pledgeship is a lot like dating. You get to know people better to confirm you want to be with them. Those bad apples will go on to cause more trouble than they're worth.
In the most likely scenario, they'll tell nationals they initiated everyone, but still give them an unofficial pledgeship complete with hazing. Because everyone thinks they're initiated, the chapter will have zero oversight, and can effectively do everything entirely under the table. They'll identify the frickheads who would've otherwise been dropped in pledgeship, and haze them harder in order to either make them drop or change their ways.
Either way, they're losing more than they're gaining had they just allowed pledgeship to continue. It's the typical overreaction by the vaginas in charge.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:23 pm to RedPop4
quote:
Would it not be a big deal if he had been off-campus?
In this case, it would've been nearly as bad. However, in most cases, it wouldn't cause a stir.
Sigma Chi had a kid OD a couple of years ago, and nobody really cared about the death itself. They were eventually kicked off, but his death was mainly attributed to his own shitty decisions.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:23 pm to ihometiger
quote:
The Greek system never had a problem with alcohol until LSU outlawed alcoholic consumption on campus
Greeks never had a problem with alcohol on campus, butLSU has had issues with it since I was there ('89). They were trying to take control of frats then as well. Incidents like this only make it easier for them.
quote:
which forced these kids to go to bars
but this happened at a frat house. On campus. and the kid died. Thats a great big ole issue.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:23 pm to Pettifogger
It's not a niche problem if you actually know anything about the way fraternities work. Fraternities have to have insurance to opporate and there are very few national insurance companies that will cover fraternities, and this number is decreasing. These companies charge very high premiums and after events like this those premiums go up. Couple that with lawsuits that aren't covered and you start to rack up very high expenses. Eliminating the possibility of even one hazing horror story and you've saved yourself a bunch of trouble. Events like what happened with Phi Delt can be major blows to the national fraternity.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:27 pm to RedPop4
It being on campus puts LSU squarely in the crosshairs. It's both a danger and an opportunity. Downside: risk of bad publicity and massive civil liability. Upside: deal with those pesky fraternities once and for all.
As I noted upthread, a student OD'd a few months ago in a University building on heroin supplied by an employee of a partner in a University joint venture. Yet there was little uproar compared to this, and AFAIK the company is still operating on campus in partnership with LSU.
As I noted upthread, a student OD'd a few months ago in a University building on heroin supplied by an employee of a partner in a University joint venture. Yet there was little uproar compared to this, and AFAIK the company is still operating on campus in partnership with LSU.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:27 pm to TigersSEC2010
quote:
Sigma Chi had a kid OD a couple of years ago, and nobody really cared about the death itself
I think that kid OD'd at his own apartment plus I think he transferred in from another school and did not pledge at LSU. I could be wrong though.....
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:29 pm to captainahab
That's was his point, not saying it's not a big deal but when a fraternity member dies off campus nobody really cares. Nationals and the school are certainly not getting involved as opposed to an on campus death
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:30 pm to Wolverine2Tiger94
quote:
It's not a niche problem if you actually know anything about the way fraternities work. Fraternities have to have insurance to opporate and there are very few national insurance companies that will cover fraternities, and this number is decreasing. These companies charge very high premiums and after events like this those premiums go up. Couple that with lawsuits that aren't covered and you start to rack up very high expenses. Eliminating the possibility of even one hazing horror story and you've saved yourself a bunch of trouble. Events like what happened with Phi Delt can be major blows to the national fraternity.
Come on, Today didn't have a "national conversation about hazing" today because of insurance coverage difficulty. While I am aware of the issues associated with insuring fraternities, and while you raise a good point as to why some of these changes could arguably be in the best interest of chapters, this angle is not the driving force behind the conduct of national fraternities.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:33 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
As I noted upthread, a student OD'd a few months ago in a University building on heroin supplied by an employee of a partner in a University joint venture. Yet there was little uproar compared to this, and AFAIK the company is still operating on campus in partnership with LSU.
Auburn's transit contractor just had two employees arrested for raping someone on a Tiger Transit bus. Same story, it won't get all that much attention.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:36 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
this angle is not the driving force behind the conduct of national fraternities.
That's where you are wrong. Nationals are operated like businesses because that is what they are, and from their point of view switching to pledgeless systems is important to them for that reason as well as others.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:38 pm to TigersSEC2010
We'll have to agree to disagree then.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:39 pm to captainahab
Also the kid was't a pledge. It's always a bigger deal when it's a pledge.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:44 pm to Wolverine2Tiger94
quote:
That's where you are wrong. Nationals are operated like businesses because that is what they are, and from their point of view switching to pledgeless systems is important to them for that reason as well as others.
I obviously can't speak to the motivations of every NIC organization's national leadership. But in my experience, practical concerns about the the longevity of organizations and greek life generally have been largely overtaken by philosophical interests in seeing American greek life reformed.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:45 pm to Pettifogger
It's funny to me how the outrage police are starting to come out in regards to this story. Mainly retarded women on Facebook, but still, I've seen a lot of shaming towards people who dare challenge the idea that Greek Activities be shut down long-term.
TL;DR: Women are stupid.
TL;DR: Women are stupid.
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:47 pm to TigersSEC2010
There are a lot of people with influence on greek life in college that have no real interest in seeing greek life continue. As bizarre as it is, I think that certainly includes greek life staff of most colleges and universities, and to some extent, national greek orgs as well.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:49 pm to TigersSEC2010
I'm chiming back in and don't want to skim 50 pages.
Has this poor kids BAC been revealed yet? All I heard was a tox screen is pending. Those always take weeks being sent off. Blood alcohol is simple though.
Has this poor kids BAC been revealed yet? All I heard was a tox screen is pending. Those always take weeks being sent off. Blood alcohol is simple though.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:57 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
There are a lot of people with influence on greek life in college that have no real interest in seeing greek life continue. As bizarre as it is, I think that certainly includes greek life staff of most colleges and universities, and to some extent, national greek orgs as well.
I hate to turn this political, but the more liberals start taking over these university Greek Life positions and national organization executive positions, the more we'll see them actually go against the people they're tasked with supervising. LSU's Greek Life staff will throw you under the bus and back it up again the second they sniff the most minor rule violation. The office is also staffed with outspoken liberals.
I was lucky in that my national organization was staffed with good ole baws from the south, and they actually stood up for us more than once when LSU was trying to frick us for something trivial. More recently, I've seen a lot of guys from the northeast and liberal arts schools moving into those positions, and they are the kind who will and have thrown their own chapters under the bus because they are too spineless to stand up to overzealous university administrators.
It's honestly sad the state of Greek Life across the country.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:06 pm to TigersSEC2010
Damn Yankees messing it all up!
Posted on 9/18/17 at 3:50 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
To the extent it's solving a problem, it's a very niche problem that gets a disproportionate amount of attention because of the type of people targeted and the type of people doing the targeting
The broader "college binge drinking problem" has been widely covered in the national media (NYT, WaPo, etc.). I think greeks are simply the most visible drinkers, and certainly the easiest to demonize given the implicit gender/race/class/self-selective characteristics of traditional GLOs.
I'd love to know how many kids died of alcohol poisoning at LSU overall last year. If there actually was a hazing component to this death (I honestly don't know, I haven't been following very closely) then I get why it's newsworthy. But I'd be willing to bet that even if you control for population size, the number of non-greeks being hospitalized for alcohol related issues is comparable to the greek figures.
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