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Are Americans historically less able to empathize with other cultures in
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:28 pm
comparison to other world powers? We have, in my opinion, felt compelled to deliver a democratic republic in each if the major conflicts we have entered since Korea. We generally seem unable to consider that other cultures do not always share our values and many do not want what we define as freedom. Did other empires suffer from this "syndrome" as well? I am not criticizing our nation in any way I am simply stating something I believe to be true. Did the British and the Romans believe that they could install the governmental systems they operated under in other nations? I know they Romans allowed many conquered nations to enter the republic and assimilate but the Romans also incorporated many of those nations cultures into their own. The British kept Territories separate and installed governors to rule. I know I am all over the place in this post but I believe you understand the point I am trying to make. Are we too disconnected in our foreign policy to successfully defeat and occupy another nation?
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:29 pm to DanTiger
quote:
We generally seem unable to consider that other cultures do not always share our values and many do not want what we define as freedom
Kill all the ISIS bastards. Every last one of them.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:31 pm to DanTiger
quote:
many do not want what we define as freedom
I think you'd be hard pressed to find many on here who want what our government defines as freedom as well.
This post was edited on 2/5/15 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:49 pm to DanTiger
We're probably more empathetic in that regards compared to others.
American imperialism exists, but we're more sneaky about it by backing leaders we want in power in those areas rather than directly throwing ourselves into the conflict (not always the case).
Once we have said leader in power we use them to push, but not force, our ideals onto that group IMO.
American imperialism exists, but we're more sneaky about it by backing leaders we want in power in those areas rather than directly throwing ourselves into the conflict (not always the case).
Once we have said leader in power we use them to push, but not force, our ideals onto that group IMO.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:51 pm to DanTiger
I don't know that "less able to empathize" is how I'd frame it.
I, for one, believe in the objective superiority of certain western values. I'm not a fan of cultural relativism, thus to the extent some non-western nation doesn't want the high points of our culture, freedom of speech, for example, I tend to think that position is the product of an inherently inferior culture.
I don't think that means I'm not able to empathize. I understand the basis for why someone may not want freedom of speech. I understand how it might suck to feel like my world view is being affronted by some outsider. But, I still think they're wrong.
All that said, it doesn't mean I support crusades in the name of American exceptionalism. Just because I think we're right and you're wrong doesn't mean I feel called to exert our correctness upon you by force.
I, for one, believe in the objective superiority of certain western values. I'm not a fan of cultural relativism, thus to the extent some non-western nation doesn't want the high points of our culture, freedom of speech, for example, I tend to think that position is the product of an inherently inferior culture.
I don't think that means I'm not able to empathize. I understand the basis for why someone may not want freedom of speech. I understand how it might suck to feel like my world view is being affronted by some outsider. But, I still think they're wrong.
All that said, it doesn't mean I support crusades in the name of American exceptionalism. Just because I think we're right and you're wrong doesn't mean I feel called to exert our correctness upon you by force.
This post was edited on 2/5/15 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:55 pm to Pettifogger
you cant free someone who doesnt want to be free.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 3:55 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I don't know that "less able to empathize" is how I'd frame it. I, for one, believe in the objective superiority of certain western values. I'm not a fan of cultural relativism, thus to the extent some non-western nation doesn't want the high points of our culture, freedom of speech, for example, I tend to think that position is the product of an inherently inferior culture.
I agree with you. Perhaps empathize was the wrong word and I should have said understand other cultures. It seems that our politicians frequently say "we at bringing freedom" to the countries we go to war with. Do we not understand that many of those countries dot want freedom?
Posted on 2/5/15 at 4:02 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I agree with you. Perhaps empathize was the wrong word and I should have said understand other cultures. It seems that our politicians frequently say "we at bringing freedom" to the countries we go to war with. Do we not understand that many of those countries dot want freedom?
A couple of things:
I'm sure there is a class of Americans who don't grasp it. They don't appreciate the gulf of cultural differences between us and whoever it is we're dealing with. I think there is a subset of the political class who plays on that, when in fact they're probably smart enough to know better. I honestly can't tell if McCain is a true American imperialist or if he just takes those positions to maintain some semblance of relevance.
But, there is some truth to the idea that the oppressed can't make free will choices about adoption of our values. I think this is overblown and used as an excuse to ignore reality, but it is at least partially true. Not all Afghanis will appreciate our culture if exposed to the better aspects of it, for example. But do I think there are plenty of them who are slaves to a culture being driven by history or others, and therefore don't have much of a choice in the matter? Sure, to some extent.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 4:10 pm to Pettifogger
Isn't it somewhat naive of us to believe we can change cultures that are far older than our own? How did other successful conquering nations deal with this? I also apologize for all of the typos. I am writing this on my phone.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 4:27 pm to DanTiger
We're pretty fricken young as a culture. And with youth sometimes comes brashness.
That said, it worked out well with countries like Japan, South Korea and Germany. Heck, even with some former Eastern block countries like Poland.
I am not at all sure that other countries don't want freedom. They may not ready for it in some cases but I think it's a pretty basic human longing. Even with things like the "Arab Spring" you could see people that were exposed to knowledge and ideas had a desire for it.
So while yeah, there tends to be a strain of jingoism and cultural immaturity that surfaces from time to time, I think that overall, a desire to see freedom grow has been a good thing.
That said, it worked out well with countries like Japan, South Korea and Germany. Heck, even with some former Eastern block countries like Poland.
I am not at all sure that other countries don't want freedom. They may not ready for it in some cases but I think it's a pretty basic human longing. Even with things like the "Arab Spring" you could see people that were exposed to knowledge and ideas had a desire for it.
So while yeah, there tends to be a strain of jingoism and cultural immaturity that surfaces from time to time, I think that overall, a desire to see freedom grow has been a good thing.
Posted on 2/5/15 at 4:28 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Isn't it somewhat naive of us to believe we can change cultures that are far older than our own? How did other successful conquering nations deal with this? I also apologize for all of the typos. I am writing this on my phone.
I would argue the opposite, actually. We are often too empathetic.
First, the Romans and even the British were much more brutal than we are as an empire. They were ruthless when they had to be. The British put down rebellion after rebellion in places like the Sudan, South Africa, India (multiple times), Malaysia, the Zulu Kingdom, Ireland, China, on and on, often very brutally. They were extraordinarily imperial in exporting their culture and their ways. To this day most of the former British empire uses British parliamentary democracy, education methods, hospital systems, infrastructure (driving on the right side of the road, for instance); Anglos were essentially a separate (and superior) class in every single one of these dominions. They had no problem crushing local customs that they believed were anti-British (slavery being a prominent one, especially in their African dominions).
The Romans were even worse; virtually everything they conquered was forcefully modeled after the rest of the empire.
We are lightweights when it comes to this stuff, but then again, we don't have much experience with true imperialism, as we've only done it on a large scale globally for about one hundred years or so. Some might argue that we did it when conquering native tribes (and they might be right), but bum-running a bunch of sparsely-populated and disparate groups doesn't come close to what the British and Romans did.
This post was edited on 2/5/15 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 2/5/15 at 4:35 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Solid points Abu. The British weren't selling freedom to those territories and what they did worked. Are we not honest enough with our intentions or are our efforts misdirected by not simply obliterating our opponents into submission?
Posted on 2/5/15 at 5:18 pm to DanTiger
Americans are abhor their own Imperialism. The people of the United States cannot rationalize the concept of subjugating a people with the principals of their nation's founding. The principles of self-determination, individual liberty, and economic freedom are simply incongruous with ruling far-flung indigenous peoples by decree. The principles of manifest destiny embolden us to be the great spreaders of democracy and freedom in the world (often whether those people want it or not).
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