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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:12 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
Let the hippies clean up their own ducking mess.
I am with this statement until a certain point, that point has been crossed. You have Democrat Governors and Mayors who refuse to clean up this mess for either politics, fear, or incompetence. What is happening is that innocent people and children are now getting killed by these animals and that isn't right.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:19 am to stelly1025
quote:
I am with this statement until a certain point, that point has been crossed.
If you leave an infection untreated it will spread. At some point if these cities are left to burn, the movement will spread to other areas and infect the whole country.
These mayors are bending over backwards to give in to the terrorists demands at the detriment to their own people. Hey murders on the rise...well lets fix that, less cops.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:20 am to Navtiger1
quote:If your opposition to what's going on around the country boils down to a simple-minded look at numbers, then you are as bad as the simple-minded dummies on the other side.
People are protesting a made up boogie man that black people are disproportionately and in genocidal numbers being murdered by white cops. When the numbers tell a completely different story.
quote:Every violent person should be arrested and prosecuted. Every single person engaged in terrorism should be arrested and prosecuted.
You can't serious? They are anarchist who regularly engage in fascistic tactics and violence. They are actual terrorist, they don't have to me brown and middle eastern to be a terrorist. little rich white kids can be terrorist too.
The problem is with labeling anyone who chooses to associate themselves with (or who the government decides is associated with) a general anti-fascist movement as a terrorist. If you and many like you don't recognize this obvious threat to freedom, then we are well and truly fricked.
quote:The political leanings of the citizenry/government and the police department/force are not necessarily aligned, and in fact are often at odds. Regardless, I don't give a damn what the political views are of anyone involved, if they are corrupt they've got to go.
Those cities are run by far left governments who claim the problem is systemic racism even though they have run those cities for decades.
quote:Not necessarily, but more likely operations by the local departments. Do NOT take this to mean that I think ALL or even MOST of the destruction has been false flag stuff, as clearly many people take advantage of these types of events. However, corrupt departments do corrupt things, and these departments have long histories of corruption. Do not be fooled into thinking they are innocent in all this.
And are you really trying to claim here in yet another straw boogie man that these are false flag operations by the evil fascist Trump? Really?
quote:"Pretty sure" is not good enough. If you support the federal government taking this type of action against its own citizens, you have to be absolutely certain that we are not installing an authoritarian regime that targets people of a particular political lean without regard for who is an actual threat.
I'm pretty sure its Antifa and the far left that want to burn the country i have defended for over 20 years to the ground and replace it with a socialist shite hole. Yeah i know who the enemy is!
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:36 am to Korkstand
quote:
If your opposition to what's going on around the country boils down to a simple-minded look at numbers, then you are as bad as the simple-minded dummies on the other side.
What? BLM states that they don't care about black on black crime or any other issue related to black people other than unarmed black people being killed by cops. The numbers do not bare out that black people are killed in even concerning numbers by police. Sorry numbers are facts. Don't care about feels!
BLM is also founded and run by Marxist's and most of their website is about socialism and communism and not black lives.
quote:
anti-fascist movement as a terrorist. If you and many like you don't recognize this obvious threat to freedom, then we are well and truly fricked.
If you accept black clad armed insurgents burning buildings, attacking innocent people, assaulting police, looting businesses, and destroying society as ok...well right back at you we are truly fricked.
quote:
The political leanings of the citizenry/government and the police department/force are not necessarily aligned, and in fact are often at odds. Regardless, I don't give a damn what the political views are of anyone involved, if they are corrupt they've got to go.
The police chiefs are appointed by the mayors a city counsels. Their political leanings are inline with the rest of the leadership. perhaps not the rank and file, but leadership most certainly is. And if you are claiming systemic racism and corruption then the party in power for decades is to blame rather you care what party they are or not. They can't claim to fix a problem they continue to create and yet blame it on others.
quote:
Not necessarily, but more likely operations by the local departments. Do NOT take this to mean that I think ALL or even MOST of the destruction has been false flag stuff, as clearly many people take advantage of these types of events. However, corrupt departments do corrupt things, and these departments have long histories of corruption. Do not be fooled into thinking they are innocent in all this
There really is no response to this. Its just stupid. So the cops are looting, burning, and beating themselves?
quote:
"Pretty sure" is not good enough. If you support the federal government taking this type of action against its own citizens, you have to be absolutely certain that we are not installing an authoritarian regime that targets people of a particular political lean without regard for who is an actual threat.
So where were you from 2008 to 2016 when this very thing was happening? Trump may be many things, but nothing i have seen from him...and he has had ample opportunity has shown him to in any way be authoritarian or dictatorial.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:40 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Of course you don't. Justified.
I don't view it as big government when rioters and hooligans are rounded up.
quote:You and I clearly have different views on what is "justified".
Proper and justified enforcement of the law is not "big" government, it is basic government.
quote:10,000 is probably too high, and 5% is much too high. Regardless, it is still extremely hard for a freedom-loving person to take assaults on many innocents by government as acceptable collateral damage during an absolutely abysmal handling of unrest.
But the issue is raw numbers. if you have 10,000 people in the streets and 5% are violent, that's 500 dangerous people roaming around. that's enough to do serious damage if they aren't stopped.
quote:I will start by saying that it's laughable that you're trying to play the empathy card on me while supporting local and federal police abuse and intimidation against American citizens. Second, I have condemned the actions of rioters, arsonists, and other criminals in this and in other threads. It is absolutely terrible what has happened to some people, and I hope justice will be served and they will be justly compensated in all cases, and that they can rebuild their businesses and lives. I'm just telling you that it is not right to attribute all of this destruction to a particular group of people, in all cases, with no evidence whatsoever for the vast majority of them. So many are using their feelings on this to fuel their hate for people they don't even know.
I think people are just frustrated that you haven't displayed the slightest bit of empathy towards small business owners
quote:Abso-fricking-lutely not! That is an absurd accusation, and I shouldn't even respond to it. That is just so fricking out there.
many of whom are immigrants. Is it possibly because you view business owners, even small ones, as the bourgeoisie who steal excess value from labor? So when their store goes up in flames or is ransacked, you see it as economic justice?
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:43 am to Errerrerrwere
quote:A blindly and enthusiastically supportive populace.
I know you don’t know history well; but what causes the fastest rise in fascism?
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:43 am to Navtiger1
Korkstand is blind. An ANTIFA apologist. He doesn’t realize and will never admit that the actions of the protestors at the courthouse could use the analogy of Ft Sumter.
If it is, I don’t think he will be able to handle how many welcome it.
If it is, I don’t think he will be able to handle how many welcome it.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:46 am to Korkstand
quote:
A blindly and enthusiastically supportive populace.
Try Eurocommunism. Ala Pierre Sémard.
And the line between fascism and socialism is very thin. Fascism is socialism plus the dictator. Even more, Hitler was just to the right of Stalin.
So, yes. When you openly support a communist organization like ANTIFA; don’t be surprised when you are met with fascist acts.
This post was edited on 7/22/20 at 1:55 am
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:52 am to Errerrerrwere
quote:
Korkstand is blind. An ANTIFA apologist.
He's definitely an Antifa apologist, who seems to think these idiots are some kind of freedom fighters or innocent protesters being blackmailed by Trumps stormtroops in a false flag attack.
And yes this very much is a mirror of Fort Sumter.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 1:59 am to Navtiger1
Yep. Substitute Jews for Capitalists and the two come together almost perfectly don’t they?
One uses race; one uses class as their ends to justify their means.
One uses race; one uses class as their ends to justify their means.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 2:24 am to Navtiger1
quote:Sorry, but I don't care one way or the other what BLM does or does not support. I'm all about freedom and anti-corruption. I'm sure I align with BLM on some issues, but I honestly do not know in the slightest what their full agenda is.
What? BLM states that they don't care about black on black crime or any other issue related to black people other than unarmed black people being killed by cops. The numbers do not bare out that black people are killed in even concerning numbers by police. Sorry numbers are facts. Don't care about feels!
BLM is also founded and run by Marxist's and most of their website is about socialism and communism and not black lives.
quote:I absolutely do not support that shite, as I have spelled out numerous times in this thread.
If you accept black clad armed insurgents burning buildings, attacking innocent people, assaulting police, looting businesses, and destroying society as ok...well right back at you we are truly fricked.
quote:Like I just said, if they're corrupt, they've got to go. I don't give a damn what their political views are. Why should that matter? Corruption is corruption, isn't it? Abuse of power is abuse of power, isn't it?
The police chiefs are appointed by the mayors a city counsels. Their political leanings are inline with the rest of the leadership. perhaps not the rank and file, but leadership most certainly is. And if you are claiming systemic racism and corruption then the party in power for decades is to blame rather you care what party they are or not. They can't claim to fix a problem they continue to create and yet blame it on others.
quote:It's stupid to claim that corrupt people do corrupt things? Now I've heard it all. And no, they obviously are not beating themselves, my god. But it should be abundantly clear by this point that many officers have absolutely stirred more anger, at the very least. There are many videos of them doing totally unnecessary shite. If you don't think dirty cops exist, and that they wouldn't bust out a few windows to get the "party" started, or otherwise poke and prod some folks, then you obviously haven't been paying attention for like ever.
There really is no response to this. Its just stupid. So the cops are looting, burning, and beating themselves?
quote:
So where were you from 2008 to 2016 when this very thing was happening?
You're going to have to give me an example. quote:At this very moment there are federal officers in American cities attempting to quell protests conducted by the opposition party. He has invented a domestic terrorist designation to assign to a mysterious and ill-defined left wing group, yet has not done the same for any of the violent right-wing groups.
Trump may be many things, but nothing i have seen from him...and he has had ample opportunity has shown him to in any way be authoritarian or dictatorial.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 2:32 am to Navtiger1
quote:No, what I am is a realist who understands that the number of people who are actually violent and terroristic far-left extremists is much, much smaller than you crazies want to believe. "Antifa" is a boogeyman, the requisite enemy that is both strong (large in number, causing widespread havoc) and weak ("soy boys") for leaders with fascist tendencies to rally support against.
He's definitely an Antifa apologist
Posted on 7/22/20 at 2:44 am to Korkstand
quote:
Sorry, but I don't care one way or the other what BLM does or does not support.
They are literally the ones driving all of these protests! If you don't care what they stand for then your whole argument about these "protests" is null and void. How can you support a movement, but ignore their actual agenda?
quote:
I absolutely do not support that shite, as I have spelled out numerous times in this thread.
But you do. Sorry but this is Antifa, whom you have white knighted throughout this for. They openly proclaim it to be so.
quote:
Like I just said, if they're corrupt, they've got to go. I don't give a damn what their political views are. Why should that matter? Corruption is corruption, isn't it? Abuse of power is abuse of power, isn't it?
But then you say this
quote:
federal officers in American cities attempting to quell protests conducted by the opposition party.
So does party matter or not?
quote:
It's stupid to claim that corrupt people do corrupt things? Now I've heard it all.
No it's stupid to say that the cops in these cities are the ones starting riots. Yes that is really stupid! I never said there aren't dirty cops there are. But if you are going to pretend like Antifa is peaceful and the cops and trump are framing them. Well there is no hope for you.
quote:
You're going to have to give me an example.
IRS attack on the tea Party
Fox journalist arrested
The whole potential spying on Trump campaign
There's more too lazy to look it up.
quote:
At this very moment there are federal officers in American cities attempting to quell protests conducted by the opposition party. He has invented a domestic terrorist designation to assign to a mysterious and ill-defined left wing group, yet has not done the same for any of the violent right-wing groups.
Since when is Antifa the opposition party? Or BLM? are random democrats being rounded up at the polls? And since when is a riot an opposition protest? Antifa is no ill-defined, they have a website, stated goals they are in several other countries. They have leadership and organization. Please list the "violent" right-wing extremist groups burning cities now or in the last 40 years. I'll wait...
Posted on 7/22/20 at 2:50 am to Korkstand
quote:
No, what I am is a realist who understands that the number of people who are actually violent and terroristic far-left extremists is much, much smaller than you crazies want to believe. "Antifa" is a boogeyman, the requisite enemy that is both strong (large in number, causing widespread havoc) and weak ("soy boys") for leaders with fascist tendencies to rally support against.
You are most definitely an Antifa apologist and you sure the hell are not a realist based on some of the dumb shite you have said.
I know Antifa doesn't make up the majority of the protest. I would say the violent ones are far less than 5%. I don't consider them a boogeyman, i consider them a violent nuisance that needs to be stamped out before it metastasis. They are entirely weal "soy boys" as every mug shot of these pussies proves. They are soft spoiled white kids LARPing as revolutionaries. They do have sinister backing and leadership, but the idiot on the street is soy soaked. And again having federal law enforcement enforce federal law is not fascism.
This post was edited on 7/22/20 at 2:52 am
Posted on 7/22/20 at 2:56 am to Korkstand
quote:
much smaller than you crazies want to believe. "Antifa" is a boogeyman, the requisite enemy that is both strong (large in number, causing widespread havoc) and weak ("soy boys") for leaders with fascist tendencies to rally support against.
I wonder how many of your ANTIFA friends would believe in:
1) strict gun control
2) separation of church and state (removing prayer from school) or setting fire to churches and statues of the Virgin Mary.
3) banning private schools
4) Michelle Obama’s “from the cradle to career”
4) Mary Saenger’s eugenic vision
5) Environmental economic policies
6) anti- property rights
7) “the common good supersedes the private good.”
8) the state passes judgement on who produces what and how much
9) working for personal gain is punishable
10) distrust markets
11) Disbanding the family unit
I would put my money on all of them. But like I said before. You are blind. Blind that the same people you are advocating for would have the same EXACT beliefs as National Socialist German Workers' Party!
Every. Single. One. Of. Those. Hitler implemented. Every one. Cut from the same cloth and you are either smitten with communism, teachers have failed you or simple blind, Korkstand!
This post was edited on 7/22/20 at 3:18 am
Posted on 7/22/20 at 3:08 am to Korkstand
quote:
many of whom are immigrants. Is it possibly because you view business owners, even small ones, as the bourgeoisie who steal excess value from labor? So when their store goes up in flames or is ransacked, you see it as economic justice?
Abso-fricking-lutely not! That is an absurd accusation, and I shouldn't even respond to it. That is just so fricking out there.
Sure you do. You are totally willing to use minorities with cultural Marxism and social justice to gain political power. But every time communism has come into power; they kill minorities.
Russia had its own Holocaust under Stalin. Hell, the Chinese have minorities sitting and waiting on trains to this very day.
Oh, boy, Korkstand. They had a term for blind people like you. Useful idiots...
Posted on 7/22/20 at 3:32 am to Navtiger1
quote:Jesus, how fricking strong is the "team" mentality with you? My position on protests against police and government corruption is null and void because I don't necessarily support a particular group that also supports the protests? You're fricking brainwashed, man.
They are literally the ones driving all of these protests! If you don't care what they stand for then your whole argument about these "protests" is null and void. How can you support a movement, but ignore their actual agenda?
quote:No matter how many times you try to claim that I support violence and destruction, it will never be true.
But you do.
quote:Again, I claim that "antifa" is a non-issue. That's YOUR boogeyman, not my cause to defend.
Sorry but this is Antifa, whom you have white knighted throughout this for. They openly proclaim it to be so.
quote:Did this logic really work in your head? Are you seriously trying to discredit my own lack of bias against party corruption because I pointed out someone ELSE'S actions against the opposition party? Yep, this country is well and truly fricked.quote:But then you say this
Like I just said, if they're corrupt, they've got to go. I don't give a damn what their political views are. Why should that matter? Corruption is corruption, isn't it? Abuse of power is abuse of power, isn't it?quote:So does party matter or not?
federal officers in American cities attempting to quell protests conducted by the opposition party.
quote:Again, I'm not "pretending" that "antifa" is peaceful OR violent. I claim they are a non-issue. Your obsession with that boogeyman is telling.
No it's stupid to say that the cops in these cities are the ones starting riots. Yes that is really stupid! I never said there aren't dirty cops there are. But if you are going to pretend like Antifa is peaceful and the cops and trump are framing them. Well there is no hope for you.
quote:
IRS attack on the tea Party
quote:Rosen?
Fox journalist arrested
quote:
The whole potential spying on Trump campaign
These are your examples of an authoritarian regime in action? One that did indeed peacefully hand over power to Trump, an act that Trump has absolutely refused to say he will do should he lose the election?
quote:What are you blabbing about?
Since when is Antifa the opposition party? Or BLM?
quote:Since when are all protesters rioters?
And since when is a riot an opposition protest?
quote:Its membership is ill-defined, you dolt! My entire fricking point is that the stage has been set to toss literally any leftist into that "anti-fascist terrorist" bucket.
Antifa is no ill-defined, they have a website, stated goals they are in several other countries. They have leadership and organization.
quote:So this is where you pretend that right-wing extremism doesn't exist? Violence is violence, extremism is extremism. For all the accusations of violence by "antifa", are you sure you want to do a count against far-right violence?
Please list the "violent" right-wing extremist groups burning cities now or in the last 40 years. I'll wait...
Posted on 7/22/20 at 3:38 am to Korkstand
Kork can you list all the cities burned and looted by right wing protestors in the past 50 years?
I'll hang up and listen.
I'll hang up and listen.
Posted on 7/22/20 at 3:46 am to CAD703X
quote:So this is where you, too, pretend that right-wing extremism doesn't exist?
Kork can you list all the cities burned and looted by right wing protestors in the past 50 years?
I'll hang up and listen.
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