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Started By
Message
re: About to put my son in drug rehab. update page 20
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:08 am to redfieldk717
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:08 am to redfieldk717
quote:
no data, pure emotion and subjectivity
nice try
yes my subjective opinion that competition is good, which is based in economic and mathematical theory, disproves my point
1
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the vast majority of the population have issues with addictions to particular behaviors. they recognize the problem and stop
no data
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:09 am to SlowFlowPro
You wish that other options were pushed by courts. But your main "argument" to make that point is to shite on the program that is prolific. I am sure that is some sort of logical fallacy.
I sure would like a burger from In-And-Out today. But we don't have any In-And-Outs. frick BURGER KING!!!
I sure would like a burger from In-And-Out today. But we don't have any In-And-Outs. frick BURGER KING!!!
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:09 am to redfieldk717
quote:
still not religion
how could a materialistic atheist complete the 12th step?
a materialistic atheist does not believe in any sort of god, spirit, soul, and believes that the only things that exist are material in nature
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:10 am to MBclass83
St. Christophers
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
let me emphasize something. i don't disagree that this is true for some people (and possibly you. i don't know you)
this is true for a very small % of the population. if you fall into this %, then i agree abstinence is probably correct
however, this should be a last line of resort, and not the first. the programs i'm discussing are the first response to people who seek treatment, but they are extreme and should only be the last line of resort for only the minute portion of people with extreme pathologies
no data
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:10 am to redfieldk717
quote:
no data
i posted it earlier
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and believes that the only things that exist are material in nature
then he believes in something, resulting in him being able to work the 12 steps
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
which is based in economic and mathematical theory
economics also tell me that something that is free and works is good
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:12 am to redfieldk717
quote:
then he believes in something, resulting in him being able to work the 12 steps
not a "higher power" or "spirituality"
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
how can you have a spiritual awakening without religion?
Pretty easily.
quote:
a material atheist cannot ever complete the 12th step
You are correct. The program requires a willingness to acknowledge that there is something in this universe that is bigger than you.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:15 am to redfieldk717
quote:
economics also tell me that something that is free and works is good
not if it's inefficient
i've already made that argument multiple times in this thread re: AA/12 steps. if this program is forcing a higher % of the population to full abstinence than is necessary, it's not efficient.
and it's not "free" in the macro analysis. we spend billions annually on these programs (both via private insurance, private funding, and public spending). economics would look to spend that money in the most efficient way possible
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 11:16 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:19 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
not if it's inefficient
there is not a program that is more efficient than AA, your data proves that.
high demand, lowest cost of all options...wins every time. tell therapists to lower their prices and it will become more of a monopoly than it already is
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 11:21 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:21 am to RogerTheShrubber
I'm sure he's read We Agnostics several times. He is very familiar with the program and all of its faults.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and it's not "free" in the macro analysis. we spend billions annually on these programs (both via private insurance, private funding, and public spending). economics would look to spend that money in the most efficient way possible
can you link this for me? not saying you are wrong, would just like to see it
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Jake. You are out of your realm here. Me and you have a very similar belief system but I was still able to complete a 12 step program. The idea of "something greater than yourself" is more broad than you are thinking... It's not that hard to stretch your beliefs to fit something in there with some mental gymnastics and make it work..... And it works if you work it!!
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:22 am to SuperSaint
quote:
The idea of "something greater than yourself" is more broad than you are thinking... It's not that hard to stretch your beliefs to fit something in there with some mental gymnastics and make it work...
but that doesn't fit his agenda of "cold, unemotional data"
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:26 am to redfieldk717
I'm as atheist as they come and I was able to place something "greater than myself" from the world pretty easily...
I had a friend that in the slot of "something greater" put how much love of his wife had for him, And was able to use the thought of the power of how much his wife believed in him and loved him as a power greater than his own to get him clean and sober. It pushed him enough to work through the 12 steps with a little mental gymnastics and he is a better man now because of it.
I had a friend that in the slot of "something greater" put how much love of his wife had for him, And was able to use the thought of the power of how much his wife believed in him and loved him as a power greater than his own to get him clean and sober. It pushed him enough to work through the 12 steps with a little mental gymnastics and he is a better man now because of it.
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 11:29 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 11:27 am to SuperSaint
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