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Message
re: 73 Years Ago Today: Soviets Open the Vistula-Oder Offensive
Posted on 1/12/18 at 11:55 am to Tigeralum2008
Posted on 1/12/18 at 11:55 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
My point is they adopted the policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
Right. The irony is that that attitude is promoted as justification of an alliance with Stalin and the USSR but is dismissed when applied to a settlement with Germany which would then serve to halt the advance of Communism (an enemy btw) into Europe.
quote:
They had to work together to face the existential threat of Germany agression
The USA faced an existential threat from German aggression? Let's just say we don't agree on certain premises.
1
Posted on 1/12/18 at 12:09 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
How many wartime settlements did Hitler agree to and violate? This is the "appeasement" interventionist rhetoric so often mindlessly regurgitated which ignores that Hitler (and most Germans) very clearly rejected the Treaty of Versailles and it's redrawing of Europe in the interests of the victors and with the direct aim of keeping Germany in a perpetual state of disunion and weakness.
All one has to do is read his books/speeches and see Hitler believed it was Germanic destiny to dominate Europe
quote:
Well that's certainly something you and FDR agree upon. You trade an authoritarian, nationalist Germany for an authoritarian, Communist Soviet Union
The Soviet Union was soundly defeated just as Germany had been. The Western world simply decided to contain the Soviets and let their flawed system crumble from within rather than risk war. I certainly cannot blame them given the options at the time.
I do however blame leaders in the 1950's for not supporting the revolutions in Hungary and Czechoslovakia which if successful could have hastened the demise of soviet influence in Europe.
Posted on 1/12/18 at 12:14 pm to Darth_Vader
The US should have backed the Germans in WW1, helped them win, and avoided the Nazis and Communist Russia all together.
Posted on 1/12/18 at 12:18 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
The USA faced an existential threat from German aggression? Let's just say we don't agree on certain premises.
The USA absolutely faced an existential threat from Germany. Can you imagine a world where the USA has no ability to import/export goods due to a Germanic blockade?
How about the multiple pro-facist movements that were in place prior to our entry in WWII?
I fully believe Germany would have attacked the USA once their victory in Europe and Russia was sealed.
Posted on 1/12/18 at 12:18 pm to Patton
quote:
The US should have backed the Germans in WW1, helped them win, and avoided the Nazis and Communist Russia all together.
Now that's an interesting argument
Posted on 1/12/18 at 12:21 pm to Darth_Vader
Question for any of you history buffs. Why did Hitler renege on his alliance with Russia, and force them to go in with the Allies? Was it just plain arrogance?
Posted on 1/12/18 at 1:03 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
The USA absolutely faced an existential threat from Germany. Can you imagine a world where the USA has no ability to import/export goods due to a Germanic blockade?
You mean a random hypothetical?
quote:
How about the multiple pro-facist movements that were in place prior to our entry in WWII?
And the pro-Communist movements? So what?
quote:
I fully believe Germany would have attacked the USA once their victory in Europe and Russia was sealed.
You believing it doesn't make it a reality. Germany also posed no existential threat to the U.S. prewar. Believing Hitler had designs on conquest of the United States as some core motivation is pure speculation with little to no actual substantiation. Hitler even made a joke out of the claims prewar in a speech to the Reichstag which received raucous laughter from the room, who also found the propaganda claims equally as absurd, because they were.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:38 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
The Soviet Union was soundly defeated just as Germany had been. The Western world simply decided to contain the Soviets and let their flawed system crumble from within rather than risk war
The mental gymnastics it requires to say this are amazing to me.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:48 am to Darth_Vader
And lsu's receivers coach was born.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 9:48 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The offensive cleared western Poland, including finally liberating Warsaw. It also took a good deal of eastern Germany, liberated many concentration camps, Auschwitz being one, and isolated substantial German forces in Silesia, Pomerania, and East Prussia.
By April they had broken through along a wide front. They took Zossen to the south, and were advancing to Stahnsdorf. They were on the northern outskirts between Frohnau and Pankow. They'd reached Lichtenberg, Mahlsdorf and Karlshorst to the east.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 10:17 am to Festus
quote:
Question for any of you history buffs. Why did Hitler renege on his alliance with Russia, and force them to go in with the Allies? Was it just plain arrogance?
The alliance Hitler fostered with the Soviets was always a marriage of convenience. The only purpose for it was to ensure Germany did not face the specter of a two front War as they did in WWI. Hilter planned all along that as soon as scores were settled in the West, he would turn his full force east to smash the Soviet Union. His ultimate goal was from the very beginning, and I mean from the 1920s, to realize the German dream of “lebensraum” in the east.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 10:19 am
Posted on 1/13/18 at 11:22 am to ChewyDante
quote:
The Western world simply decided to contain the Soviets and let their flawed system crumble from within rather than risk war
This is comical.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 11:23 am
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