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Posted on 4/30/11 at 7:08 am to JJ27
The Saints drafted very well and took a good one in Ingram. Even though SFP is my favorite professional NFL talent evaluator, Im going to have to disagree with him and you in this situation.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 8:38 am to JJ27
quote:
For the FOURTH time in this thread, I WANTED INGRAM AT #24. I LOVE HIM AS A SAINT. THIS THREAD WAS LOOKING AT SFP'S ARGUMENT LAST NIGHT
And by that logic, SFP is DEAD WRONG.
All you did was give up a 2nd to draft next year's 24 pick (or lower depending on our playoff run).
If you liked Ingram at all in the 1st round, then this trade makes all the sense in the world. We gave up a 2nd to get RB help NOW. The quality of help that may not have been available at the same spot in next year's draft. Jeez, some people.
Never forget SFP is a blowhard that thinks because he likes sports that he knows sports.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 8:40 am to JJ27
quote:
Last night SFP questioned the Saints giving up so much for Ingram
SFP questions everything every team does regardless. The dude has almost 200k posts.
Just learn to ignore him.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 9:08 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
If you liked Ingram at all in the 1st round, then this trade makes all the sense in the world. We gave up a 2nd to get RB help NOW. The quality of help that may not have been available at the same spot in next year's draft. Jeez, some people.
1)This is the best argument as far as what we gave up, a second round pick. If you want to talk about blowing away draft picks look at the Falcons.
2) This FO has shown that they are good at reading talent. Apparently they felt Ingrams talent differance justified the move.
3) Nobody will know anything about any of the picks until 2 years down the road. Whining about it now is stupid.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 9:18 am to horndog
Remember this: SP knows more than SFP.
SFP is a transparent contrarian. He confidently posts like he knows something everyone else doesn't, and that has gained him a few loyal sheep here, but really he just opposes the majority opinion, which includes Sean Payton's opinion half the time.
If this board universally went, "Holy shite! Look at Martez Wilson's film. Dude is a monster! We finally got a pass rusher at LB" then SFP would have said "He's going to play over the TE mostly, and he can't cover. Left school early after missing the previous year due to a herniated disc surgery. Would have preferred SS Tyler Sash."
But if this board would have universally went, "Who is Martez Wilson? Why did we take a chance on a guy with a injury history but didn't on Bowers? Should we have taken Drake Nevis?" then SFP would have went, "The injury is a non-factor. After his surgery, he still had 112 tackles and was All Big Ten. Should have been taken in the 1st round. As far as Nevis...
".
SFP is a transparent contrarian. He confidently posts like he knows something everyone else doesn't, and that has gained him a few loyal sheep here, but really he just opposes the majority opinion, which includes Sean Payton's opinion half the time.
If this board universally went, "Holy shite! Look at Martez Wilson's film. Dude is a monster! We finally got a pass rusher at LB" then SFP would have said "He's going to play over the TE mostly, and he can't cover. Left school early after missing the previous year due to a herniated disc surgery. Would have preferred SS Tyler Sash."
But if this board would have universally went, "Who is Martez Wilson? Why did we take a chance on a guy with a injury history but didn't on Bowers? Should we have taken Drake Nevis?" then SFP would have went, "The injury is a non-factor. After his surgery, he still had 112 tackles and was All Big Ten. Should have been taken in the 1st round. As far as Nevis...
".Posted on 4/30/11 at 9:26 am to JJ27
I haven't read this whole thread, but the problem with JJ and SFP's theory is that they take "the field" rather than just one specific player. Sure, odds are good that 1 RB in this draft class might wind up having a better career than Ingram. But you can't draft the field, you have to draft a real live actual football player and without the benefit of hindsight from 3-4 years from now. And I think the odds are also pretty good that Ingram will be better than any 1 specific RB. Clearly the Saints thought so as well. 
Posted on 4/30/11 at 9:41 am to LSUFreek
quote:
Remember this: SP knows more than SFP.
SFP is a transparent contrarian. He confidently posts like he knows something everyone else doesn't, and that has gained him a few loyal sheep here, but really he just opposes the majority opinion, which includes Sean Payton's opinion half the time.
If this board universally went, "Holy shite! Look at Martez Wilson's film. Dude is a monster! We finally got a pass rusher at LB" then SFP would have said "He's going to play over the TE mostly, and he can't cover. Left school early after missing the previous year due to a herniated disc surgery. Would have preferred SS Tyler Sash."
But if this board would have universally went, "Who is Martez Wilson? Why did we take a chance on a guy with a injury history but didn't on Bowers? Should we have taken Drake Nevis?" then SFP would have went, "The injury is a non-factor. After his surgery, he still had 112 tackles and was All Big Ten. Should have been taken in the 1st round. As far as Nevis...
Wow. I read that and honestly thought you stole it from SFP
Great breakdown and spot on!This post was edited on 4/30/11 at 9:42 am
Posted on 4/30/11 at 9:43 am to Hot Carl
It's almost like people forgot we had 5 running backs on IR last year.
Contrary to popular belief, RB was absolutely a need position.
Contrary to popular belief, RB was absolutely a need position.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 10:27 am to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
It's almost like people forgot we had 5 running backs on IR last year.
Or that we had Julius fricking Jones getting significant carried in a road playoff game for the defending Super Bowl Champions.
quote:
Contrary to popular belief, RB was absolutely a need position.
Of course it was. And just because you CAN get a diamond in the rough later in the draft or even FA, doesn't mean it's EASY. Or every team would be full of Arian Fosters. If they were so easy to identify, then those guys would have gotten drafted in the mid rounds, instead of the late ones. SFP is using hindsight to identify those diamonds, comletely discounting that for every one of them, there are likely 100 backs who never see an NFL carry.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 10:41 am to Lakefront-Tiger
quote:
All you did was give up a 2nd to draft next year's 24 pick (or lower depending on our playoff run).
you could have kept both picks and gotten a similar RB. what is so hard to understand about that?
Posted on 4/30/11 at 10:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
similar RB
Similar size or skill?
I'm 6'3 334, I guess I should go play NT for the Jets.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 10:44 am to Hulkklogan
quote:
Similar size or skill?
both
go look at my thread
Posted on 4/30/11 at 11:01 am to LSUFreek
Dude you are spot on. That's exactly something he would say lol
Posted on 4/30/11 at 11:05 am to LSUFreek
quote:
but really he just opposes the majority opinion, which includes Sean Payton's opinion half the time.
that's funny b/c lots on this board were scared of the brees signing and i was pimping it harder than any
quote:
If this board universally went, "Holy shite! Look at Martez Wilson's film. Dude is a monster! We finally got a pass rusher at LB" then SFP would have said "He's going to play over the TE mostly, and he can't cover. Left school early after missing the previous year due to a herniated disc surgery. Would have preferred SS Tyler Sash."
i really don't know anything about martez wilson, so i didn't comment. looks like a good athlete at LB, which we desperately need
i've been wrong, like with porter. i've been right, like with bush/jenkins. nobody, including our staff, is perfect
but my commentary about the cost/value isn't the same as a direct analysis of the players (which is tough to do). there is a lot more objective evidence to look at the trends/values in the NFL today. a lot less guesswork/speculation also
Posted on 4/30/11 at 11:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you could have kept both picks and gotten a similar RB.
This is a separate argument and a valid one. I think Ingram is signifantly better than any other back in the draft. YOu do not. Fair enough. But again, instead of taking the field with "a similar RB," tell us specifically who you are referring to. You can't draft "a similar RB to Mark Ingram" you have to draft an actual human being.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 11:48 am to Hot Carl
quote:
I think Ingram is signifantly better than any other back in the draft.
i don't, but even if he is, if we platoon him, this value decreases
Posted on 4/30/11 at 11:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you could have kept both picks and gotten a similar RB. what is so hard to understand about that?
Then the argument is that you don't like Ingram...not that making a trade for a RB is the problem.
THAT was your position...not that you thought LeShoure in the 2nd or someone specific later was a better option than Ingram. In fact, you specifically said you wouldn't draft a RB until late (a flier) and instead would go after a veteran FA.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 12:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if we platoon him, this value decreases
Most teams in the league platoon, bro. Times have changed.
Posted on 4/30/11 at 12:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's funny b/c lots on this board were scared of the brees signing and i was pimping it harder than any
So let me get this straight, you go against the majority opinion....& agree with Sean Payton opinion half the time? (Brees: YES!, Ingram: NO!) I'm having a case of deja vu
Listen, I get not liking burning a pick to move up. I'm usually more conservative, and on priciple, like to keep our picks, if only so I'm not bored on draft day waiting for 32 great talents leave without a chance to get them. But after years of be underwhelmed initially on draft day (even though they usually prove to be solid picks), it nice to finally get known commodities of quality even if they had to pay a price.
Could they have stood pat and got a Leshoure-like back and still kept next years first? Probably.
Could they have kept their picks and lucked out with a 3rd day gem? Probably.
But did they solidify their RB position this year & the following 4 years with a quality RB talent? Probably. So I am not that upset at burning a 2nd rounder for a quality back today.
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