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Pass Rush/Defensive Backs
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:15 am
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:15 am
So the defense sucked bad. A lot of names are being thrown out to get rid of. Many are suggesting players to get also both on the front end and the back end of the D. Simple survey here-
When weighing the problems of the pass defense how would you measure it between pass rush and pass coverage? Give a percentage where you think the essential problems are-
Rush/Coverage
I'll go 65/35
With a good pass rush I think most of the defenders move up a grade or two and do not need replacing.
Add a Darrelle Revis and even he would get stranded on his island having to cover for 5, 6, 7, 8 seconds, and even longer.
When weighing the problems of the pass defense how would you measure it between pass rush and pass coverage? Give a percentage where you think the essential problems are-
Rush/Coverage
I'll go 65/35
With a good pass rush I think most of the defenders move up a grade or two and do not need replacing.
Add a Darrelle Revis and even he would get stranded on his island having to cover for 5, 6, 7, 8 seconds, and even longer.
8
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:18 am to blueslover
A pass rush would dramatically overhaul our defense. Secondary wouldn't get stranded, would create turnovers, cause QB's to completely change their game. The biggest problem our D has IMO. QB's get way too comfortable when they play us.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:22 am to Mr. Wayne
quote:
A pass rush would dramatically overhaul our defense. Secondary wouldn't get stranded, would create turnovers, cause QB's to completely change their game. The biggest problem our D has IMO. QB's get way too comfortable when they play us.
On point
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:26 am to Brettesaurus Rex
Maybe if we slowed down our offense and don't score fast our defense wouldn't be on the field so long and often.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:35 am to blueslover
A pass rush would cover up a variety of deficiencies. It has to be the priority.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:35 am to blueslover
quote:
When weighing the problems of the pass defense how would you measure it between pass rush and pass coverage?
70/30
Making it even worse we have zero OLB's who can threaten the QB's with a outside pass rush. Zero!
Thats just terrible in todays NFL.
D-line and OLB's is all I want for Christmas. Maybe a free safety in the stocking.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:37 am to goatmilker
Do we really think we're gonna get a pass rush with our drafting positions?
Maybe we should go for the projects.
Maybe we should go for the projects.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:45 am to blueslover
I think everyone will agree that a great D in the nfl starts with having a great pass rush. The saints DBs are serviceable if they can get a DE opposite of Cam that can get to the QB consistently, make him throw the ball quick and not stand like statue and throw as he pleases.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:49 am to Hoodoo Man
I got the comments but could everyone put a 50/50 ratio %. Just wanna see if the consensus is as strong toward rush as I think.
Fortunately cuz it is such a deep class of pass rushers I think so. I'm only at Mock 1.0 but feel very good now that they will be able to get one of the following:
Dion Jordan
Sam Montgomery
Ziggy Ansah
Much higher probability that Jordan will be gone at #15 IMO. It might be just one of Ziggy & Sam available and no choice. It could be an interesting with them both on the board. The classic higher risk/higher upside player vs. the more sure thing.
quote:
Do we really think we're gonna get a pass rush with our drafting positions?
Fortunately cuz it is such a deep class of pass rushers I think so. I'm only at Mock 1.0 but feel very good now that they will be able to get one of the following:
Dion Jordan
Sam Montgomery
Ziggy Ansah
Much higher probability that Jordan will be gone at #15 IMO. It might be just one of Ziggy & Sam available and no choice. It could be an interesting with them both on the board. The classic higher risk/higher upside player vs. the more sure thing.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 8:52 am to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Do we really think we're gonna get a pass rush with our drafting positions?
CSP has got it covered this year.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 9:00 am to blueslover
60/40
I think some of you are giving the secondary an undeserved pass on this one. While the pass rush was dreadful, there were many instances in which WR's were running free even when we did get a pass rush going. Our Safety play was terrible, and the CB's (Robinson!) were getting beat at the line.
It's a chicken/egg argument, and one which does not have a difinitive answer. They both really feed and feed off each other, so it's open ended to assign blame. I ask you this: how many coverage sacks did we get this year?
I think some of you are giving the secondary an undeserved pass on this one. While the pass rush was dreadful, there were many instances in which WR's were running free even when we did get a pass rush going. Our Safety play was terrible, and the CB's (Robinson!) were getting beat at the line.
It's a chicken/egg argument, and one which does not have a difinitive answer. They both really feed and feed off each other, so it's open ended to assign blame. I ask you this: how many coverage sacks did we get this year?
Posted on 1/24/13 at 9:02 am to blueslover
quote:
When weighing the problems of the pass defense how would you measure it between pass rush and pass coverage? Give a percentage where you think the essential problems are-
Rush/Coverage
I'll go 70/30
I think that greer/robinson/mack give us average to slightly above average cornerbacks. If p-rob progresses then they could even be pretty good. This past year Corey White got thrown in too quickly which contributed to making the secondary look god awful. Hopefully going forward he can develop into becoming a serviceable nickle/dime.
Harper is Harper. He isn't great, and people love to bitch about him. But at the end of the day he's an average to above average safety. Malcom Jenkins was definitely the weak link at the safety position. He really disapointed me as I had high expectations for him. If there is a position that needs to be replaced from a personnel perspective in the secondary, it is here. I haven't completely given up on him, but at this point the prospect of his developing into a key contributer just isn't looking good.
Like others have said, I am a strong believer that having some sort of pass rush will improve the secondary as much if not more than adding talent to the secondary while taking care of other difficulties that our record setting defense has faced. I don't know if the talent will be there for us, but the potential gains are worth the risk.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 9:32 am to blueslover
quote:
Give a percentage where you think the essential problems are-
Rush/Coverage
79/21
Ex. A) Eagles vs. Saints: The Eagles OL was decimated. Because of that, we rushed the passer at will and won the game easily.
Ex. B) Saints vs. Cowboys: We were ahead by 2 TDs with only a few minutes left to go in the 4th quarter. Our inability to rush the passer let Romo pick our defense apart. He had all day to let a WR get open. The secondary didn't play any better or worse those last few minutes than they had the rest of the game and we were winning.
Ex. C) Greer is a good CB. PRob usually has good position (yes, sometimes he's in terrible position) but they can't cover forever.
Ex. D) We were 5th in Interceptions and 14th Passes Defended. We were 25th in Sacks.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 9:54 am to blueslover
70/30
The pass rush has been mediocre for years.
Thought the CB's played alright this year, definitely didn't get much help from the safeties. I think we need to have a shake up at FS really. Like others have said, why not move Jenkins back to corner?
But why do the LB's get a pass? Our run defense was terrible this past year and it hasn't been that good in a long time either, consistently anyway. The front seven has been a bigger problem in my opinion. Other teams will always get to pile on the passing yards with all these new rules in favor of the offense. Rushing the passer and stopping the run are the two biggest keys IMO.
The pass rush has been mediocre for years.
Thought the CB's played alright this year, definitely didn't get much help from the safeties. I think we need to have a shake up at FS really. Like others have said, why not move Jenkins back to corner?
But why do the LB's get a pass? Our run defense was terrible this past year and it hasn't been that good in a long time either, consistently anyway. The front seven has been a bigger problem in my opinion. Other teams will always get to pile on the passing yards with all these new rules in favor of the offense. Rushing the passer and stopping the run are the two biggest keys IMO.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 12:00 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:
Our run defense was terrible this past year
I agree about run defense. It was the worst I've seen in a long long time by anyone. And it's a bigger problem than the pass defense IMO. I was only answering the question presented.
And the LBers weren't great in coverage, but most LBers aren't.
I think our secondary was mismanaged all year.
CB: Greer is fine at CB. PRob is good at man to man. Jenkins has been good at nickle and spot play at CB in the past. White got better as the year went on as a spot/nickle CB. Same for Mack.
S: Harper is good at run support and average at best in coverage. Jenkins was just out of position all year, but hustled. IAQ played well at both safety spots.
IMO, Jenkins, IAQ and Harper should have been moved around more. Harper and IAQ at S and Greer and Jenkins at CB on 1st down in Spag's zone to stop the run. IAQ at safety with Greer and PRob at CB and Jenkins at nickle/rover on 2nd/3rd and long in more man to stop the pass.
It's not rocket science or anything!
Posted on 1/24/13 at 12:06 pm to Suntiger
If Hicks starts and Ellis is on another team and if we get an good upgrade for Malcolm then our defense will be much better. Adding any picks on D will be icing.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 12:11 pm to saintsfan92612
quote:
If Hicks starts and Ellis is on another team and if we get an good upgrade for Malcolm then our defense will be much better.
In the Carolina game Jenkins was out and Hicks and Gallett played a lot more than Ellis. Didn't work out in our favor.
But yeah, I'm comfortable with Hicks and Bunckley at DT.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 12:11 pm to saintsfan92612
It's time for Bill Johnson to move on IMO. He's the common element to our inability to rush the passer (without blitzing like crazy) the last few years.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 12:20 pm to kclsufan
quote:
It's time for Bill Johnson to move on
Greg McMahon ST coach can leave with him.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 1:04 pm to Suntiger
quote:
In the Carolina game Jenkins was out
I like Quddus, but he is not what I would call a good safety. He is a good backup though.
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