- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Lets revisit the "we don't need a RB" discussion.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 11:51 am to htran90
Posted on 10/31/16 at 11:51 am to htran90
Hightower just ran for 100 yards stop it the problem is Ingram. You keep talking about a bad o line well hell if you can get a special running back who cam make something out of that terrible o line you pick him. There is nothing special about mark at all, no speed, not quick, no vision, no cutback ability, open field ability. Nothing
Every game will not be like that bame game where the frick do y'all come up with this shite do you watch NFL games outside of the saints??
Every game will not be like that bame game where the frick do y'all come up with this shite do you watch NFL games outside of the saints??
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 11:58 am
0
Posted on 10/31/16 at 11:53 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
Marshall Faulk had 7 seasons with 3+ fumbles including a 7 fumble season He averaged 3 fumbles/season, not including playoffs
I was thinking the Rams Marshall Faulk...but he learned to protect the ball better later in his career.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 11:58 am to htran90
quote:
Ingram has never had ball security problems until last week. Ingram had 748 carries and had lost 1 fumble before going into 2016. Hell, he had 833 carries before he lost his 2nd career fumble in the regular season...
Not losing the fumble does not mean he doesn't have ball security problems. He has fumbled 8 times over the past 4 seasons. I'm sure the percentages of fumbles to fumbles lost will likely favor the defense.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 12:28 pm to Magazine St
quote:
I was thinking the Rams Marshall Faulk...but he learned to protect the ball better later in his career.
Fine, here are Faulk's rams numbers only. By that argument, Ingram can improve that aspect too if he has such a 'problem'
1917 touches, 13 fumbles, 10 lost
- 147.5 touches per fumble
- 191.7 touches per fumble lost
quote:
Not losing the fumble does not mean he doesn't have ball security problems. He has fumbled 8 times over the past 4 seasons. I'm sure the percentages of fumbles to fumbles lost will likely favor the defense.
If you want to include receiving fumbles as well, here are numbers to prove the fact that he doesn't have that large of a problem. PT has had VERY good ball security, especially when we ran screens and passes for him -- his problem was more of when he was used to run and not catch. He fumbles a lot more as a runner than receiver. Opposite is true for Ingram who fumbles more as a receiver than runner.
Ingram: 962 total touches, 8 fumbles, 5 lost
- 120.25 touches per fumble
- 192.4 touches per fumble lost
Thomas: 1169 total touches, 5 fumbles, 2 lost
- 233.8 touches per fumble
- 584.5 touches per fumble lost
Ivory: 982 total touches, 14 fumbles, 5 lost
- 70.1 touches per fumble
- 196.4 touches per fumble lost
Hill: 598 total touches, 8 fumbles, 5 lost
- 74.75 touches per fumble
- 119.6 touches per fumble lost
Here are some of the top RBs in the league right now and their career
Freeman: 574 touches, 4 fumbles, 3 lost
- 143.5 touches per fumble
- 191.3 touches per fumble lost
Elliott: 174 touches, 2 fumbles, 1 lost
- 87 touches per fumble
- 174 touches per fumble lost
Johnson: 352 touches, 5 fumbles, 1 lost
- 70.4 touches per fumble
- 352 touches per fumble lost
Murray: 1530 touches, 16 fumbles, 11 lost
- 95.625 touches per fumble
- 139.1 touches per fumble lost
Miller: 930 touches, 6 fumbles, 5 lost
- 155 touches per fumble
- 186 touches per fumble lost
Gordon: 402 touches, 8 fumbles, 6 lost
- 50.25 touches per fumble
- 67 touches per fumble lost
And here's two bigger names:
Peterson: 2652 touches, 38 fumbles, 22 lost
- 69.8 touches per fumble
- 120.5 touches per fumble lost
Lynch: 2396 touches, 26 fumbles, 14 lost
- 92.2 touches per fumble
- 171.1 touches per fumble lost
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 12:39 pm to htran90
Raw numbers are fine but game situation is also a big factor. Up three TDs? Not that big of a deal. ANY fumble for the Saints nowadays is a big deal because the games are always tight.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 1:11 pm to htran90
Ingram almost never tucks the ball in traffic, that's why he's fumbling at the rate he does. Your case would be great if he consistently made big plays. The one I can recall, he was caught from behind and fumbled the ball out of bounds. The colts game last year was pretty good but he sucked in the open field.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 1:58 pm to liquid rabbit
Exactly, he always seems to lose the ball in our part of the field or when we can go up by two scores. It's a weird thing with ol' Mark.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 2:40 pm to Magazine St
quote:
Exactly, he always seems to lose the ball in our part of the field or when we can go up by two scores. It's a weird thing with ol' Mark.
Has literally never happened. Zero turnovers when the Saints cou;d "go up by two scores". So yea, it is weird
quote:
Ingram almost never tucks the ball in traffic, that's why he's fumbling at the rate he does.\
So how does his fumble rate compare with other nfl backs for their careers?
Fumble Rates
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 3:54 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
So how does his fumble rate compare with other nfl backs for their careers?
First off that list isn't up to date, it will probably be updated after tonight.
Over his career he has fumble when we've gained momentum several times. We were driving to go up by a td or fg. He doesnt do it All the time but it's happened. You all defend him like he's only being held back by Payton, he has to execute when on the field. If he did other backs wouldn't steal carries from him. He would not have been benched if he was so effective. Like I said before I route for the dude every game, but he leaves much to be desired. If Trent Richardson were Saint I'd route for him to. im just saying it's time to move on or get a more talented guy back there so Ingram can spare him carries. He's averaging 2 fumbles a year, but like someone said before it's when and we're the fumbles occur.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 4:01 pm to Magazine St
quote:
First off that list isn't up to date, it will probably be updated after tonight.
That's the 2015 list. You can also view the rate from other years. His fumbling has not been an issue, comparatively, over the course of his career. And I've already addressed your Faulk comparison
Back to this:
quote:
he had 3 alone (which is ALOT)
It really isn't comparatively. But then again, Faulk....
It actually appears to be pretty damn common for running backs. Lynch had 18 from 2010-2015. Gurley has 5 in 20 games, Johnson has 5 in 24 games, Elliot has 2 already, Martin had 5 last year alone, Charles routinely had 5+, McCoy has 3+ years too, etc. etc. etc.
quote:
Over his career he has fumble when we've gained momentum several times. We were driving to go up by a td or fg. He doesnt do it All the time but it's happened
You're changing your argument (because it was wrong). I looked up every single lost fumble he had, and it literally hasn't happened to what you originally claimed. He has NEVER lost a fumble when the saints were going to go up by 2 scores. The closest is his fumble against the Bears when we were up 30-13.
You keep just making stuff up. He hasn't played well this season so far, but let the arguments stand on it's own without having to pull shite out of thin air.
The stats back it up. And he was benched because he is CURRENTLY having an issue. By your same logic, he had the starting job and was extended because he was reliable, especially in that department.
This topic has gotten boring. LSU fans just can't be rational about Ingram.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 4:20 pm to Magazine St
quote:
He's averaging 2 fumbles a year, but like someone said before it's when and we're the fumbles occur.
yawn. a turnover is a turnover. inopportune timing sucks, but its still a turnover. So you'd be more okay if he fumbled in the middle of the game in the 2nd-3rd quarter with the game tied at 10-10 as opposed to a 4th quarter up 7?? Its still a turnover.
He actually only averages 1.3 fumbles a year (0.83 lost a year)...the biggest issue is his lack of 'explosiveness', but since Nicks was lost in FA and Devery Henderson retired/cut we have not been having those big plays running the ball as a team regardless of whoever ran it.
Ingram: 70 yard long last year, 34 in 2013, 59 long last year receiving
PT: 27 yard long 2014, 39 long receiving in 2014
Sproles: 38 yard long 2013, 48 yard long receiving in 2013
Robinson: 62 yard long 2014, 22 yard long receiving in 2014
Compare it to the 2009-2012 years:
Sproles: 2012 - 47 yard run, 44 yard reception
PT: 2012 - 48 yard run, 2011 - 57 yard reception
Bush: 2009 - 55 yard run, 2006 - 74 yard reception
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:19 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
quote: First off that list isn't up to date, it will probably be updated after tonight. That's the 2015 list. You can also view the rate from other years. His fumbling has not been an issue, comparatively, over the course of his career. And I've already addressed your Faulk comparison
The Faulk mention was just an EXAMPLE, I'll change it to Tomlinson if that helps you. Both were great backs and amassed far more touches year to year than Ingram.
But just for visual aid though Faulk had a season with 253 carries, 1359 yards, 18 TD, 5.4 avg; 81 rec, 830 yards, 8 TD; 0 fumbles (With Rams) in a passing offense.
quote:
But, again Faulk.
I've already said the Faulk comparison was based on the Rams part of his career.
quote:
You're changing your argument (because it was wrong).
The statement I made was to show that he makes bad plays when we have momentum. He gets too lose with the ball, most of his fumbles come because he doesn't physically secure the ball while running. If you don't think 3 fumbles in one season is a lot from one person you have to be arguing for the sake of arguing. Especially, considering the fact that most pro Ingram posters believe he doesn't get enough carries.
Why do you all believe this is an LSU vs Bama thing? If we had Lacy, minus this season I'd be just fine. Hell, I'd take Cooper and Julio too. The difference is those guys are consistently productive in this stage of their careers. I wish for a Adrian Peterson, but would take a Arian Foster, Le'veon Bell type back. I grew up watching some of the best ever and Ingram does not have that talent level. He's an OK running back and to say he's anything beyond that is because you're still holding out hope that he will be one day. I'm guilty of the latter, but I'm calling it like I see it right now. Oh, and I liked the Ingram pick, when many said it was a reach.
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:51 pm to htran90
quote:
yawn. a turnover is a turnover. inopportune timing sucks, but its still a turnover. So you'd be more okay if he fumbled in the middle of the game in the 2nd-3rd quarter with the game tied at 10-10 as opposed to a 4th quarter up 7?? Its still a turnover.
Yeah because a int or fumble on the opening kick off is the same as losing a fumble on your opponent's goaline with seconds on the clock and needing the score to win the game.
quote:
Devery Henderson retired/cut we have not been having those big plays running the ball as a team regardless of whoever ran it.
You are using Devery Henderson as the reason Ingram doesn't break into the open field
I'll give you big 77 Nicks, but not a Wr. Plus, your purposely omitting Ivory's stats to help your point. In a small sample size Ivory had more slash plays and yes he had fumblitis during that time span. Ivory is also an EXAMPLE of the vision and speed Fournette or Cook could bring to this offense. Your boy Ingram is not a top tier back. I like his heart but that's where it ends. Why not replace him with someone better?This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 5:54 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 5:57 pm to Magazine St
quote:
change it to Tomlinson if that helps you.
He averaged ~3 fumbles a season too
quote:
If you don't think 3 fumbles in one season is a lot from one person you have to be arguing for the sake of arguing.
I can't comprehend what I've posted for you. I compared your statement to the best backs in the NFL and gave you a list.
quote:
The statement I made was to show that he makes bad plays when we have momentum
You made a statement and doubled down on something that has literally never happened with the saints. You yanked it firmly out of your rear.
K. Done on this topic. It's stupid. He's got ball security issues this year, and the stats and rates reflect that. Saying otherwise is "arguing for the sake of arguing". I couldn't really care any less if Ingram is used going forward or not as I like Hightower just fine for this season.
quote:
"I've been in his shoes," Hightower said. "It's easy sometimes to forget where you came from. Man, I've had some of those rough games. I've had games where I put the ball on the ground two times, and it hurts. We work hard in this game, but when one of us is down, the rest of us got to pick each other up."
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 6:12 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 6:15 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
quote: change it to Tomlinson if that helps you. He averaged ~3 fumbles a season too
Tomlinson owns the record for most carries without a fumble (712 or 721 I can't remember exactly) with a larger sample size.
quote:
K. Done on this topic. It's stupid. He's got ball security issues this year, and the stats and rates reflect that. Saying otherwise is "arguing for the sake of arguing". I couldn't really care any less if Ingram is used going forward or not as I like Hightower just fine for this season.
I say this, I want Ingram to play better, until then let's get a better option in there.
Posted on 10/31/16 at 6:21 pm to Magazine St
quote:
Tomlinson owns the record for most carries without a fumble (712 or 721 I can't remember exactly) with a larger sample size.
And that's kind of my entire point. Even LT averaged ~3 fumbles a season for his career as an all-time great. He was an all pro in a 6 fumble season
quote:
until then let's get a better option in there.
Sure. I think a RB is def needed this offseason in the middle rounds. Since Payton said ball control was a point of emphasis this past week, he better be damn comfortable this new trend is over before putting him back out there. It's back breaking
This post was edited on 10/31/16 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 10/31/16 at 6:28 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
And that's kind of my entire point. Even LT averaged ~3 fumbles a season for his career as an all-time great.
Ok, well my between the lines point is that given more carries Ingram two or more fumbles over that last 4 seasons could be far worse. Payton has never trusted him or any other back to go 25-30 carries on a regular basis.
Posted on 11/6/16 at 4:46 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
We have almost 150 yards rushing today and yet the defense can't stop the Kaepernick led 49ers. I think this settles it.
This post was edited on 11/6/16 at 4:49 pm
Page 4 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News