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Posted on 11/30/10 at 7:29 pm to NicoBlues
quote:
I doubt seriously he is a saints fan
easily been a Saints fan longer than the majority here
Posted on 11/30/10 at 7:30 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
who batted the balls? Where\ were they thrown?
really did not think I'd get an answer, b/c it would not support the reasoning of many here
Posted on 11/30/10 at 7:35 pm to LSUTANGERINE
Thank God you're back
Posted on 11/30/10 at 7:39 pm to LSUTANGERINE
The problem with your Brees / Hartley analogy is that Hartley has not WON us any games this year to make up for the game that he blatantly lost us.
Brees did cost us Cleveland and played poorly a few others (Carolina, Arizona) but he also was the clear MVP for Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Francisco, Seattle, and even the Atlanta loss so he's more than made up for his 1 or 2 bad games. Also he was injured during all of his shitty games (although none of us knew how badly at the time) so he's totally exonerated in hindsight.
Finally, it's not like Hartley missed a 47 yarder outdoors in Pittsburgh. Nobody would be crucifying him for that. He missed a fricking 29 yarder indoors on a carpet kicking from the perfect hash that he prefers. I do blame Payton for not centering the ball like an extra point - I think angles create noise and mental obstacles for kickers that aren't needed.
Brees did cost us Cleveland and played poorly a few others (Carolina, Arizona) but he also was the clear MVP for Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Francisco, Seattle, and even the Atlanta loss so he's more than made up for his 1 or 2 bad games. Also he was injured during all of his shitty games (although none of us knew how badly at the time) so he's totally exonerated in hindsight.
Finally, it's not like Hartley missed a 47 yarder outdoors in Pittsburgh. Nobody would be crucifying him for that. He missed a fricking 29 yarder indoors on a carpet kicking from the perfect hash that he prefers. I do blame Payton for not centering the ball like an extra point - I think angles create noise and mental obstacles for kickers that aren't needed.
This post was edited on 11/30/10 at 7:42 pm
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:34 pm to AlejandroInHouston
The times that Hartley will get to "win" a game don't come as often as Brees's opportunities to win games. Honestly Hartley played a huge part in the Dallas win. If he misses any of his attempts I believe we lose. The brilliant play of Brees at qb no doubt plays an absolute huge part in our wins but it is just that....a part. Again, no one player wins or loses a game by themselves. Problem is when a bad play is made that is what everyone dwells on and remembers the most.
The missed kick against Atlanta wasn't the sole reason we lost the game but could be more correctly described as the last mistake the Saints made before Atlanta won the game. That game was full of offensive blunders...Hartley's kick was just one of them.
The missed kick against Atlanta wasn't the sole reason we lost the game but could be more correctly described as the last mistake the Saints made before Atlanta won the game. That game was full of offensive blunders...Hartley's kick was just one of them.
This post was edited on 11/30/10 at 8:44 pm
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:49 pm to jpggpj
quote:
Honestly Hartley played a huge part in the Dallas win. If he misses any of his attempts I believe we lose.
That's a good point and his kickoffs were pretty decent as well (I think it was him kicking off).
Posted on 11/30/10 at 8:55 pm to AlejandroInHouston
This discussion is full of lameness. The team sucked against Atlanta, but Hartley had a chance to make up for it with the kick. He didn't. But there's plenty of blame to go around for that one. It's really that simple.
Hartley then had problems in other games. Last game he was back on target. Clearly, Payton has confidence in him for now.
Hartley then had problems in other games. Last game he was back on target. Clearly, Payton has confidence in him for now.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 9:13 pm to VOR
quote:
Clearly, Payton has confidence in him for now.
No doubt. I think what Hartley accomplished in the end last season is the reason for this. This guy could not have been under more of a pressure situation in NFC Championship and he nailed it. Not to mention what he did in the Superbowl. He was money. He did however screw up during the regular season at times. Had he not performed like he did in post season, I think Payton has released him by now but that performance entitled him to what he is getting now..."a longer leash from Payton."
This topic is full of lameness but the main point from which it derived I agree with....I think Hartley should be given some slack from fans.
Posted on 11/30/10 at 10:22 pm to jpggpj
Look the thing I take away from that game is we turned the ball over 3 times and still had to miss a field goal for them to win. that just shows how much better we are than them. Right now we have the #4 offense and the #6 defense. They have #10 offense and the #20 defense.Cant wait to kick there arse at home on national TV!!! 
Posted on 11/30/10 at 10:29 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
who batted the balls? Where\ were they thrown?
I'm not trying to be a homer but the point is essentially correct. Of Brees' 15 picks, I'm going to say at least 6-7 have bounced off of Saints backs or receivers first. Graham in the Dallas game, Betts twice (once against Arizona, can't remember the other) and more. I'm not going to research it in depth, but Duncan mentioned in a column a week or two ago...
..and yes, Hartely is by no means the sole reason we lost the Atlanta game. Vilma had one of his worst games as a Saint that day, too.
You can't blame Hartley for Arizona or Cleveland, both of which were inexcusable.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 1:58 am to EmperorGout
Another good point.
Anytime a defender has gotten even 1 hand on a Brees pass he's caught it. Breed has had some terrible luck - usually defenders will drop 25% to 40% of potential picks. Brews has damn d-linemen one handing them off the fricking ground this year it's insane.
Anytime a defender has gotten even 1 hand on a Brees pass he's caught it. Breed has had some terrible luck - usually defenders will drop 25% to 40% of potential picks. Brews has damn d-linemen one handing them off the fricking ground this year it's insane.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 2:15 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
who batted the balls? Where\ were they thrown?
really did not think I'd get an answer, b/c it would not support the reasoning of many here
You didnt get an answer because I refuse to stoop to your low-level logic. You have no business on the Saints board. Go back to the rant please, it would do us all a favor.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 2:46 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
I see comments blaming Hartley for ATL being atop the division by one game. Didn't Drew Brees throw two INT's in that game? How about the other losses? 3 INT's vs. Zona and we all know how well Drew played and how many INT's he threw against the Browns
As I was saying just a few weeks ago.
Thanks for continuing to prove my point. Making it easy for me.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 2:47 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
You really have a hard time understanding the concept of weighing positive contribution against negative contribution.
quote:
You're right. Drew really helped us in the other two losses--especially Cleveland.
I LOVE how your response further proves his point, and you don't even realize it.
You can't make this stuff up.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 2:56 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
Now beffore you think I am Drew bashing
Why would ANYONE think you're drew bashing???
quote:
Didn't Drew Brees throw two INT's in that game? How about the other losses? 3 INT's vs. Zona and we all know how well Drew played and how many INT's he threw against the Browns
quote:
Drew really helped us in the other two losses--especially Cleveland
quote:
Drew 12th in QB ratings, trails onely Brett Favre and E. Manning in INT's
quote:
When you're paid to be a QB and in doing so you cannot manage to be in the top 1/3rd of starting QB's and are near the top in INT's, I wouldn't say you're fairing well
quote:
--Drew is the sole person responsible for the loss to Cleveland
quote:
Did he not throw 4, yes 4 INT's, with two, yes 2, returned for TDs and one of those being deep in the red zone?
quote:
So you think Bree's 4 INTs, with two returned for TDs and one in the red zone, is not to blame for the loss to the Browns?
quote:
How about the three INT's in the loss to Zona?
quote:
yeah, he really put us in a position to win v. Zona (3 INTS's) and the Browns (4 INT's' 2 for TD's).
Posted on 12/1/10 at 5:39 am to shel311
quote:
Why would ANYONE think you're drew bashing???
B/c YOU are missing the point and do not even realize it.
Posted on 12/1/10 at 7:03 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
B/c YOU are missing the point and do not even realize it.
Kinda like you missing the point when I called you out a few weeks ago for constantly doing exactly what you're doing now in this thread that you started, but you denied it?
Kinda like that you'd say?
Posted on 12/1/10 at 8:56 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:And you know this because...
easily been a Saints fan longer than the majority here
Posted on 12/1/10 at 9:35 pm to SJS Eagle 85
quote:
And you know this because...
age
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