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Message
re: Cut Ingram
Posted on 12/18/16 at 7:59 pm to LNCHBOX
Posted on 12/18/16 at 7:59 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
I would use yards per attempt like a normal person.
WTF? That is the stat that Im arguing is overvalued. That stat receives too much influence based on the quality of the OL the RB is running behind.
Broken Tackles arent influenced by the players on the OL. Although one could argue that with a good OL you get to the second level more often with a head of steam giving you a better chance to break a tackle. Not sure if the stats I posted take that into consideration.
I think we can agree that RB is a difficult position to measure on stats alone. Its the one position more than any other that rely on the "eye test" and I really hate that test because of its subjective nature and human bias.
1
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:01 pm to nola000
Lol what the hell would you consider elite if Emmit Smith was mediocre? He rushed for over 1000 yards every single season from 1992-2001. 1300+ for 6 of those seasons.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:04 pm to DirtyMike
quote:
Lol what the hell would you consider elite if Emmit Smith was mediocre? He rushed for over 1000 yards every single season from 1992-2001. 1300+ for 6 of those seasons.
Im talking about evaluating a RB from pure skill alone. When a back runs for a lot of yardage or a high YPC that can be influenced by a bunch of factors outside of the RB himself.
How often does the team run the ball vs pass?
How good is the OL?
How good are the run play designs?
What kind of run defenses has he faced?
etc.
It doesnt necessarily exclude those stats as indicative of his ability it just doesnt automatically verify his ability as the value of those stats arent attributed to by the runner on his own.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:05 pm to nola000
Let me guess, you think Fournette is going to be a great running back in the NFL, right?
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:07 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Let me guess, you think Fournette is going to be a great running back in the NFL, right?
Not at all.
I think he has a great speed/power combination in a great package(height/weight) but I think his vision is average and his lateral agility is slightly above average.
I dont play favorites. If I seem like I have a favorite its based on running ability alone. Thats doesnt always translate to success at the next level as its always situational(look at all the first round QBs the Browns have burned) and theres always politics involved(saving face with draft picks)
I like where this is going. Lets shake all these guys out.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 8:10 pm
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:14 pm to TideSaint
For ex.
I thought T.J. Yeldon was always a much better RB than Derrick Henry.
I thought T.J. Yeldon was always a much better RB than Derrick Henry.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:18 pm to nola000
You didn't answer my question. Who would you consider elite if Emmit Smith isn't?
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:29 pm to nola000
quote:
That stat receives too much influence based on the quality of the OL the RB is running behind.
Our O-line is not really great at run blocking, so...
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:19 pm to DirtyMike
quote:
You didn't answer my question. Who would you consider elite if Emmit Smith isn't?
I didnt see you ask me that question.
To answer...
I dont watch a lot of other teams play but Saints RBs that come to mind are guys like Pierre Thomas, DMac, Ivory, Khiry Robinson. On other teams, Marshawn Lynch, Doug Martin, Devonta Freeman, Michael Turner, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, etc.
Guys that give effort, run hard, always fall forward, never go down with the first defender, etc.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:22 pm to frog legs
Dumb arse.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:28 pm to nola000
quote:
YPC is not a necessarily a good stat to judge a running back.
Wow, this might be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site.
I say that and I am not a Ingram fan. It has zero to do with him being from Bama but the fact that he is so wildly inconsistent. You can't depend on him because you never know which player will show up.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:31 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Let me guess, you think Fournette is going to be a great running back in the NFL, right?
He can be, but he will have to get drafted by the right team. IMO Guice will be a better NFL back than Fournette, his skill set is better suited for the wide open NFL game played today.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 4:29 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Did you say cut Drew when he obviously didn't try to throw up the Hail Mary before the half because it would have hurt his completion percentage or been an interception?
Holy shite. You actually believe this, don't you?
Posted on 12/19/16 at 4:30 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Let me guess, you think Fournette is going to be a great running back in the NFL, right?
What a crazy opinion to have.
I mean the guy NFL scouts are drooling over may be a great back?
fricking crazy
Posted on 12/19/16 at 6:05 pm to nola000
Ingram is good if the O Line opens a hole big enough to drive a truck through. Then he can run forward for 10 or 15 yards in a straight line until someone tackles him. He has no elusiveness and goes down as soon as someone gets a finger on him or breathes too hard in his direction.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 6:09 pm to cbree88
quote:
He has no elusiveness and goes down as soon as someone gets a finger on him or breathes too hard in his direction.
quote:
Mark Ingram is the likely workhorse running back if he can stay healthy; last season, his 59.4 elusive rating was seventh in the NFL among qualifying backs, and his 2.9 yards after contact per attempt was the fifth-highest mark in the league.
I want to say he ended up finishing 2nd in elusive rating last season
Posted on 12/19/16 at 6:36 pm to nola000
quote:
nola000
Props to you man. Just read this entire thread and all these noobs that use YPC as a stat to evaluate a RB are hilarious and they just don't get it. Very nicely formatted in making TideSaint your bitch. Ingram has and always will be nothing more than mediocre. People who know football and how to watch it know that.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 10:37 pm to Split2874
quote:
I think Ingram has a TD clause in his contract and Payton is trying to save the team money
He has a yardage clause, not a TD clause.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 10:51 pm to skrayper
Mark Ingram is considered one of the top 10 backs in the league by most metrics.
Last year he was one of the top 5 backs in YAC.
#3 Actually
There's a slew of stats to look at from PFF. His ranking in a few of them:
#9 in Defense-adjusted Value Over Average
#4 in Value Over Average.
#4 in Success Rate
#14 in Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement
#9 in Yards Above Replacement
Stats found here
Last year he was one of the top 5 backs in YAC.
#3 Actually
There's a slew of stats to look at from PFF. His ranking in a few of them:
#9 in Defense-adjusted Value Over Average
#4 in Value Over Average.
#4 in Success Rate
#14 in Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement
#9 in Yards Above Replacement
Stats found here
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