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re: Would it have been possible to keep Lonzo and still have enough money for Graham?
Posted on 10/30/21 at 7:23 am to nicj4
Posted on 10/30/21 at 7:23 am to nicj4
quote:
I'm starting to think Pels coaches really badly use the players. It's not normal for a player to improve after leaving a team ... Lonzo seems to be better at Bulls. Even Adams looks to be better at Grizzlies.
Coaches can only work with the talent you give them.
Like last night with people pissed Willie put in Kira late, well, what the frick else can he do when he literally has no one else to go to to give Graham rest? And he also has Griff over the other shoulder telling him he MUST play the younger guys?
This franchise has a storied history of gathering and being stuck having to use lesser talent and misfit parts and asking guys to punch above their weight. Also, in GM’s blameshifting those poor rosters onto coaches to save their skin.
Lonzo was always better than his haters overstated, but still not as good as his actual Stan’s loudly proclaim at you. But he is talent we shouldn’t have let walk, and we let it happen entiriely because Griff and his hubris.
Adams got to go from a dated coach and a poor fitting roster to one of the best young coaches and a roster that pretty much resembles the bones of what he’s played his entire career in OKC. Not shocked he would have a bounce back year. Still, Adams always seems to look like a different player his first 10-25 games vs the rest of the season. He tends to break down as time goes on to the point he looks almost washed by seasons end. Votes out if he has conditioned enough to get over that continual problem.
1
Posted on 10/30/21 at 7:47 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
LONZO. DIDN'T. WANT. TO BE HERE.
Exactly. Every hypothesis regarding Lonzo is worthless bc he was never going to be here regardless.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 8:01 am to Billy Mays
I’m sure that’s why he and Klutch went to Griff the previous year looking to work out a deal….and why he repeatedly said “I’d like to stay in New Orleans.”
Y’all did this battered woman’s routine shite with Christian Wood too. Wanting assurances and maximizing your financial health is not equivalent to shunning New Orleans.
Not to mention, Lonzo has no say in the matter, he was an RFA, and he’s not a top 25 player, if New Orleans wants him, he stays, end of story. Quit making up after-the-fact excuses for poor management. Griff ain’t gonna cut you off part of his unearned salary for Stanning him on message boards
Y’all did this battered woman’s routine shite with Christian Wood too. Wanting assurances and maximizing your financial health is not equivalent to shunning New Orleans.
Not to mention, Lonzo has no say in the matter, he was an RFA, and he’s not a top 25 player, if New Orleans wants him, he stays, end of story. Quit making up after-the-fact excuses for poor management. Griff ain’t gonna cut you off part of his unearned salary for Stanning him on message boards
Posted on 10/30/21 at 8:09 am to Bronc
quote:
Not to mention, Lonzo has no say in the matter, he was an RFA, and he’s not a top 25 player, if New Orleans wants him, he stays, end of story. Quit making up after-the-fact excuses for poor management. Griff ain’t gonna cut you off part of his unearned salary for Stanning him on message boards
Right. Lonzo wasn’t happy. But 20 mil as a vote of confidence would have done wonders to his feelings towards the org. Having Lonzo + Graham would have given us 1-2 more wins most likely just by putting NAW on the bench and moving Kira to getting 0 minutes.
The problem is we don’t have 8-9 playable players right now. So if one of the 6-7 players is having a bad game we’re screwed.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 8:15 am to higgsBoson
I mean it’s not hard to see why Lonzo would have some mixed feelings toward the organization when Griff basically spent two seasons trying to push Lonzo out the door for Griff’s “guys” and letting him know he didn’t really value him.
Basically low balled him when Lonzo asked for an extension than immediately had him in every trade rumor for two seasons.
People than act like Lonzo’s the a-hole when by end of year two of that bullshite he’s talking about “we’re gonna weigh our options” and coming up with contingency plans with the organizations that showed they wanted Lonzo to be there.
Basically low balled him when Lonzo asked for an extension than immediately had him in every trade rumor for two seasons.
People than act like Lonzo’s the a-hole when by end of year two of that bullshite he’s talking about “we’re gonna weigh our options” and coming up with contingency plans with the organizations that showed they wanted Lonzo to be there.
This post was edited on 10/30/21 at 8:17 am
Posted on 10/30/21 at 8:22 am to Bronc
quote:
Basically low balled him when Lonzo asked for an extension than immediately had him in every trade rumor for two seasons.
Isn’t this just you making the opposite assumption you’re accusing others of making? What makes you right and everyone else wrong?
Here’s what I have trouble squaring with the lowball theory. How do you lowball Lonzo when $15 is the QO and $20 is what he ended up getting? I’m not saying they absolutely didn’t, but it seems like it’d be pretty hard to do with that small of a gap to fill.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 8:33 am to TigerinATL
We had threads on here from discussions that Lonzo and Griff’s camp were notably apart. Lonzo wanted 20, Griff was offering notably less. A deal was unable to be reached per Woj.
That’s not assumption, that’s what the reporting said. Klutch said they hoped to work something out, but almost immediately when the season started you heard Lonzo’s name thrown around in trades and that Griff was actively shopping him. Coming close to just outright trading him to the Bulls but thought he’d have better leverage and time to work through things in the off-season.
You can literally follow the timeline of events and see where Lonzo and his camp are optimistic and pushing for an extension, and as the rumors and hardball continue that posture slowly shifts until basically all but saying, yeah, frick your guys by the off-season.
That’s not assumption, that’s what the reporting said. Klutch said they hoped to work something out, but almost immediately when the season started you heard Lonzo’s name thrown around in trades and that Griff was actively shopping him. Coming close to just outright trading him to the Bulls but thought he’d have better leverage and time to work through things in the off-season.
You can literally follow the timeline of events and see where Lonzo and his camp are optimistic and pushing for an extension, and as the rumors and hardball continue that posture slowly shifts until basically all but saying, yeah, frick your guys by the off-season.
This post was edited on 10/30/21 at 8:34 am
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:02 am to Bronc
I suppose the ultimate evidence is not matching. But still, how do you lowball with such a small gap? They must have drawn a line in the sand around $18 and Chicago beat it.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:12 am to Bronc
quote:Things change
I’m sure that’s why he and Klutch went to Griff the previous year looking to work out a deal….and why he repeatedly said “I’d like to stay in New Orleans
What was he asking for the previous year? Unless you know the answer to that question, this point you keep making is not relevant. If he were asking for $20 mil or year before last season, do you really think we should have given that to him?
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:13 am to Bronc
quote:What did we offer and what did Lonzo ask for?
Basically low balled him when Lonzo asked for an extension
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:15 am to Bronc
quote:So we didn't low ball him, his ask was too high, seems that's what you meant but you're changing the substance around it.
had threads on here from discussions that Lonzo and Griff’s camp were notably apart. Lonzo wanted 20, Griff was offering notably less. A deal was unable to be reached per Woj
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:16 am to cfontenot4
quote:This thread is pretty amazing in that there's a lot of discussion and good content but not a single post has addressed the actual point of the thread... Anyone have an answer to this? I've been wondering and asking in threads as well.
Would it have been possible to keep Lonzo and still have enough money for Graham?
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:22 am to TigerinATL
Who knows, but I think it became painfully obvious via all the concurrent machinations of low balling, looking to trade him, and angry at SVG for not playing NAW/Kira/Hayes more, that Griff over valued his guys(NAW, Kira) and was probably only ever going to retain Lonzo on a sweetheart deal, and even then probably looks to trade him sooner than later.
And maybe there is a world where if Griff had drafted better, or at least drafted guys ready to take on those roles at this point, that bullishness makes some sense.
For instance had we chosen Hunter and Cole Anthony. Or Garland and Sadiq Bey. Then yeah, letting Lonzo walk starts to make some sense to clear the way for cheaper, higher upside talent. A guy like Graham could still be brought in to be a 6th man and give you that catch and shooting Lonzo did but from a smaller role. And that’s a team that can win a decent chunk of games with Zion and his injury issues.
It’s all just a frustrating situation because it feels like had Griff just not tried to demonstrate he was smarter than everyone we’d almost always be better off and have a much better team right now and be in a much more advantageous position to pounce on a superstar and still have talent left over to be very deep.
And maybe there is a world where if Griff had drafted better, or at least drafted guys ready to take on those roles at this point, that bullishness makes some sense.
For instance had we chosen Hunter and Cole Anthony. Or Garland and Sadiq Bey. Then yeah, letting Lonzo walk starts to make some sense to clear the way for cheaper, higher upside talent. A guy like Graham could still be brought in to be a 6th man and give you that catch and shooting Lonzo did but from a smaller role. And that’s a team that can win a decent chunk of games with Zion and his injury issues.
It’s all just a frustrating situation because it feels like had Griff just not tried to demonstrate he was smarter than everyone we’d almost always be better off and have a much better team right now and be in a much more advantageous position to pounce on a superstar and still have talent left over to be very deep.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:24 am to shel311
Spotrac shows the Pels as $6.9 million away from the tax. Send back $15 for Sato and Temple and you should have been able to come up with a deal to keep Lonzo and maybe add a minimum player.
Then you’d be right up against the tax line. A workable situation for sure, it just limits in season moves some.
Then you’d be right up against the tax line. A workable situation for sure, it just limits in season moves some.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:26 am to shel311
quote:
So we didn't low ball him, his ask was too high, seems that's what you meant but you're changing the substance around it.
This is one of the your dumber attempts to spark a pointless argument.
From Lonzo’s perspective it was a lowball offer, from the future market perspective it was a low ball offer. And we know it was an offer below 20 because as ATL acknowledged, we didn’t fricking match the 20 he did end up getting. So basic deductive reasoning tells you we came in lower.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:29 am to Bronc
I don't care about Lonzo anymore
I just wish NAW would be as advertised
I just wish NAW would be as advertised
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:31 am to Bronc
quote:Common denominator strikes again!!!
This is one of the your dumber attempts to spark a pointless argument.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:32 am to TigerinATL
quote:So basically no chance for Graham and Zo.
Spotrac shows the Pels as $6.9 million away from the tax. Send back $15 for Sato and Temple and you should have been able to come up with a deal to keep Lonzo and maybe add a minimum player.
Then you’d be right up against the tax line. A workable situation for sure, it just limits in season moves some.
For this team, I'd take Graham at his price point over Zo at his. Good move by Griff, but he did fail by not trading him for value at the deadline imo.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:40 am to shel311
Offer Graham, match Lonzo.
Yes, it was possible.
Yes, it was possible.
Posted on 10/30/21 at 9:40 am to shel311
quote:
So basically no chance for Graham and Zo.
No. I’m saying take the current roster and swap out Satoranaky and Temple for Lonzo and a minimum player. There was room to do that, it just puts you right near the tax meaning no uneven trades in season.
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