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re: Raise your hand if you think Zion is in good shape
Posted on 2/29/24 at 12:43 pm to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 2/29/24 at 12:43 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
So playoffs and 50 win season isn’t anywhere? Ok.
You can't make the argument that a coach is a big reason that players develop in one thread and then say that Zion is on pace to take us to 50 wins and a 2nd round playoff series in another thread.
1
Posted on 2/29/24 at 12:54 pm to Broski
quote:
You can't make the argument that a coach is a big reason that players develop in one thread and then say that Zion is on pace to take us to 50 wins and a 2nd round playoff series in another thread.
First of all if you’re going to play the game of “gotchya” you should do it accurately. I stated if Zion lost in second round- people would still blame it on Zion’s weight. I didn’t say he would take us there. I did say he would likely take us to 50 win season and playoffs as our best player.
Second, I never said Willie is a big reason the players develop in another thread. Maybe you misworded that.
Frankly you may want to rewrite your whole post calling me out. Just hit the edit button.
This post was edited on 2/29/24 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 2/29/24 at 12:59 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Second, I never said Willie is a big reason the players develop in another thread
I never said you did. My point was that you were implying in the last thread that a sign of a good coach is how players develop under them, for example, you listed Ant and SGA and what Finch and Deignault did with them, in response to someone saying the Pelicans issues is about the players more so than Willie (I say it's both for the record). You responding to that is implying that our star players aren't really developing under Willie (which I'd agree with).
However, here you are giving Zion credit for having us on pace for 50 wins. By that logic, Willie would have to deserve some credit for getting Zion to that point, no? Considering it would be the second best record this franchise has ever had.
quote:
Frankly you may want to rewrite your whole post calling me out. Just hit the edit button.
Oh good god, quit making everything sound like you watched someone punt your dog.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:10 pm to Broski
quote:
By that logic, Willie would have to deserve some credit for getting Zion to that point, no? Considering it would be the second best record this franchise has ever had.
Sure Willie deserves some credit but then how much is he responsible for our late game collapses and our losses as well? How much is he also responsible for Zion not being an all star or top 30 player as well?
Heres the thing you think a majority of this team’s issues are based on Zion and BI. I’m under the assumption you also think no matter the coach this will always be the case. I disagree. Yes I think Zion and BI have issues but I also think a better coach would get more out of them and put them in a better position to succeed as well.
quote:
Oh good god, quit making everything sound like you watched someone punt your dog.
Lol I actually laughed at this. Haven’t heard this in a while. Kudos.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:18 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Sure Willie deserves some credit but then how much is he responsible for our late game collapses and our losses as well?
I think our clutch issues make him highly responsible, but if we win 50+ games that means we won a shite ton more games than we lost without top end talent.
quote:
How much is he also responsible for Zion not being an all star or top 30 player as well?
I think that's on Zion for not taking his conditioning seriously. Maybe if he was in college a coach would deserve blame for that, but in the NBA, you're an adult professional, making millions of dollars... that you can't take it seriously enough to get your body right is on you.
quote:
Heres the thing you think a majority of this team’s issues are based on Zion and BI.
It's not just me that thinks that based on the gamethreads.
quote:
’m under the assumption you also think no matter the coach this will always be the case.
I think a coach doesn't matter as much as the players.
Lets see if this makes sense. If we had top tier talent, I think Willie's lack of experience and issues with his adjustments would be the difference in us winning the finals and bowing out in the WCF, so in that sense yeah a coach matters. But I think with the way our roster is presently constructed, we could have peak Popp coaching this team and we'd probably still max out as a second round exit, which I think is our max with Willie as the coach of this team.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:26 pm to Broski
quote:
Lets see if this makes sense. If we had top tier talent, I think Willie's lack of experience and issues with his adjustments would be the difference in us winning the finals and bowing out in the WCF, so in that sense yeah a coach matters. But I think with the way our roster is presently constructed, we could have peak Popp coaching this team and we'd probably still max out as a second round exit, which I think is our max with Willie as the coach of this team.
Ok I may not agree with this but I get your overall point. So then I ask whats the solution? To trade BI and/or Zion and basically start over? Would you build around Herb, Trey or Hawkins? Just guessing from your comments but Im under the assumption you would get rid of BI/Zion but where would we go from there?
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:32 pm to Pels_Yaz
My outlook is that we’re kind of fricked until it clicks for Zion… if it ever clicks for him.
You can trade BI for a more complementary piece(s), but until Zion makes his ascent, we’re spinning our wheels and going nowhere.
And we can’t trade Zion either because he’s still our only shot in having a top 10 player here, since no one will come to this mediocre franchise on their own volition
You can trade BI for a more complementary piece(s), but until Zion makes his ascent, we’re spinning our wheels and going nowhere.
And we can’t trade Zion either because he’s still our only shot in having a top 10 player here, since no one will come to this mediocre franchise on their own volition
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:37 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
So playoffs and 50 win season isn’t anywhere? Ok.
Is this a joke? Compared to the standards of a star player, yes that is basically nothing. Especially when there are giant red flags about how he plays in crunch time that indicate we will have little playoff success (hope I’m wrong obviously).
Rewind to the day Zion was drafted. If I told you it would take five years until he played a full season and brought us to the playoffs (which he hasn’t done yet), would you be excited about that?
Y’all talk about him now like it’s great that he’s a borderline all-star. For someone with his abilities that doesn’t even meet the minimum expectation. Fans have just become conditioned to set the bar low for him because of how often he fricks up.
This post was edited on 2/29/24 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:39 pm to Broski
quote:
My outlook is that we’re kind of fricked until it clicks for Zion… if it ever clicks for him.
Why I go back to the Willie Green issue. I think this organization needs to hire a coach that starts getting on Zion- rather than pacifying him. Bench him if he doesn’t run back on D, publicly call him out to do more, and push him until he gets there. Zion needs a kick in the arse not a pat on back when he plays OK defense 40 games into the season. This still may not work- but at least you tried everything to get this guy to be a top player.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:39 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
We’ll lose a second round playoff series and it’ll be Zion is out of shape.
If this teams wins a playoff series, there will be a lot of well deserved optimism around here. Getting out of the first round of the west this year is a real accomplishment
I think it’s the bar by which the season should ultimately be judged.
Posted on 2/29/24 at 1:44 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Why I go back to the Willie Green issue. I think this organization needs to hire a coach that starts getting on Zion- rather than pacifying him
I think the babying of Zion is a Griff order
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:00 am to unctiger4
Shutup
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:50 am to Broski
quote:
My outlook is that we’re kind of fricked until it clicks for Zion… if it ever clicks for him. You can trade BI for a more complementary piece(s), but until Zion makes his ascent, we’re spinning our wheels and going nowhere. And we can’t trade Zion either because he’s still our only shot in having a top 10 player here, since no one will come to this mediocre franchise on their own volition
Are you me? These are my exact same thoughts as well.
I just can’t get that worked up over Willie when his 2 best players aren’t even top 30 players. That is like 80% of our issues, the fact that Zion and BI are just not good enough
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:53 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Why I go back to the Willie Green issue. I think this organization needs to hire a coach that starts getting on Zion- rather than pacifying him. Bench him if he doesn’t run back on D, publicly call him out to do more, and push him until he gets there. Zion needs a kick in the arse not a pat on back when he plays OK defense 40 games into the season. This still may not work- but at least you tried everything to get this guy to be a top player.
Was that not SVG? Then the whole team ended up hating him.
I honestly don’t know who that coach is? Is borrego that sort of guy? Udoka comes to mind but the rockets scooped him up
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