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Message
re: Offseason moves
Posted on 2/27/13 at 2:34 pm to Jester
Posted on 2/27/13 at 2:34 pm to Jester
quote:
27 isn't in the "only" range, in my opinion. His being a bulky center will probably start to wear down his knees a little earlier than most. That would be my only big concern with bringing Pek in on a big deal. He is going to start tailing off. The $1M questions are "How soon?" and "How steep?"
I get that, and wouldnt go any longer than 4 years on a potential deal...
but, then again he doesnt have much more than 4 full NBA seasons on his knees/legs.. and only one averaging over 30 minutes.
He only played 91 Euroleague games from 05-10
1
Posted on 2/27/13 at 2:57 pm to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
He only played 91 Euroleague games from 05-10
By Euroleague, do you mean Euroleague proper or games in European Leagues? I see that it has 98 games in his Euroleague bio, but I'm sure he played quite a few more than that in his teams' local leagues.
eta - it looks like it does include lower league games.
This post was edited on 2/27/13 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 2/27/13 at 3:58 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
$10mil a year for 8pts/7rebs/1.4blks and 42%FT is a stealId rather just keep the $5m a year for 11/5/1.6/56%/76%. Or we can spend about $10m a year on Serbian Shaq for 16/9/1/51%/73%
Lazy analysis=lazy analysis
Jordan plays 25 mpg. Normalize the stats or look at the rates and then lets talk. And most of these stats wont measure his defense, which is superior to Lopez and Pekovic.
Yes, he is overpaid. So are most guys in the NBA.
4 years of overpaying for Pekovic or 2 for Jordan? I go with Jordan.
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:10 pm to corndeaux
To be clear. Im not advocating for Jordan as the answer and asking for a trade this summer.
I do think a player like Jordan- defense, rebounding, rim protecting- is what they need from the 5. I dont think Pekovic, while a good player, satisfies those team needs at that price.
Team needs change (better perimeter defenders), then my thoughts can change too.
I do think a player like Jordan- defense, rebounding, rim protecting- is what they need from the 5. I dont think Pekovic, while a good player, satisfies those team needs at that price.
Team needs change (better perimeter defenders), then my thoughts can change too.
This post was edited on 2/27/13 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:15 pm to corndeaux
Theres a very big reason Jordan plays 25 minutes a game... they cant have him on the floor in close games because of his awful foul shooting. Hes a turnover in a 1-1 situation more times than not.
The Clippers have one of the thinnest front lines in the league, and he averages 25 minutes, that should tell you something
The Clippers have one of the thinnest front lines in the league, and he averages 25 minutes, that should tell you something
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:22 pm to corndeaux
Lopez and Jordan both play 25mpg. Jordan makes $5m more for 1.8 more rebounds. He has zero offensive game. And his defense is reminiscent of JaVale McGee's crouch in the lane and wait to block shots. Im not looking up the rates, can you tell me what makes his defense so good? Why can't he get more than 25mpg when the other center on the roster is Ryan Hollins? If the Clippers weren't winning the Jordan deal would be mocked heavily.
As for he and Pekovic..
Pekovic plays 32mpg and goes 16/9/1.
Jordan's per 36 reads 13/11/2.
quote:
4 years of overpaying for Pekovic or 2 for Jordan? I go with Jordan.
How many centers in the NBA average at least 16/9 and shoot 50%+?
1. Dwight Howard
2. Al Horford
3. Pekovic
That's it. shite, only 5 centers average 16/9 without shooting 50% (add in Cousins and Al Jeff). There are 30 NBA teams.
Pay Pek $10m for 4 years or Jordan $10m for 2? Hmmmm.
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:28 pm to MrPappagiorgio
Like I said earlier, Davis/Anderson is the frontcourt pairing in crunch time.
Jordan doesn't play more for 2 reasons- LAC had one of the best bench units in the league and Blake Griffin cant shoot FTs either.
Plus how many minutes do you want a new 5 to play? Davis and Anderson should get about 34 mpg each. But lets say they combine for 64 out a possible 96 minutes. That leaves only 32 total minutes left at the 4/5 spots. One guy cant play all those minutes, so we're already in the 20s for mpg
If you want to bench Davis or Anderson for Pekovic, I dont know what to tell you.
Jordan doesn't play more for 2 reasons- LAC had one of the best bench units in the league and Blake Griffin cant shoot FTs either.
Plus how many minutes do you want a new 5 to play? Davis and Anderson should get about 34 mpg each. But lets say they combine for 64 out a possible 96 minutes. That leaves only 32 total minutes left at the 4/5 spots. One guy cant play all those minutes, so we're already in the 20s for mpg
If you want to bench Davis or Anderson for Pekovic, I dont know what to tell you.
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:31 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Im not looking up the rates,
DeAndre Jordan BLK% 4.6
Robin Lopez BLK% 5.2
Nikola Pekovic BLK% 2.1
Jordan is the best rebounder though
Jordan TRB% 17.3
Lopez TRB% 12.5
Pekovic TRB% 15.9
But Jordan is a turnover machine. TOV% of 15% vs. 11% for Lopez and Pek, and that's with Jordan also having a much lower usage rate than both.
This post was edited on 2/27/13 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:38 pm to corndeaux
quote:
If you want to bench Davis or Anderson for Pekovic, I dont know what to tell you.
So which of these guys is going to guard the center in "crunch time"? Sounds like a great way to lose.
Anderson is a 3 point specialist. He doesn't do anything else particularly well, nor does he do anything particularly bad. The ball won't be in his hands with the game on the line.
Considering we would have GV on the floor (35% from 3, creates his own shot), Gordon on the floor (33% from 3, creates his own shot), and hopefully a SF that can do his job (shoot the 3, creates his own shot) along with Davis, then yeah, I want a big body in the game over Anderson.
Posted on 2/27/13 at 4:44 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Like I said earlier, Davis/Anderson is the frontcourt pairing in crunch time.
You want to add a defensive specialist(arguable), but in crunch time when the game is on the line you want a 3pt shooter on the floor in his spot
k
quote:
LAC had one of the best bench units in the league
Ryan Hollins
Ronny Turiaf
Lamar Odom
Thats the remaining PF/C on their roster after Griffin, Jordan
quote:
If you want to bench Davis or Anderson for Pekovic, I dont know what to tell you
When rebounds mean a change of possession, and my team is in a close game? I want a guy who is gonna get me a tough rebound
So yes I would bench Anderson for Pek late in games
Posted on 2/27/13 at 6:38 pm to MrPappagiorgio
A few things that are fundamentally different between you and Gyno and me- if im wrong about your beliefs, please correct me (i doubt that will be a problem):
You guys are projecting Davis to be unable to play center at all..
I believe he will be able to play center and anchor a defense sooner rather than later. Not saying he will be full time at that spot, but he will be the 5 in crunch time when this team is competing for larger prizes than playoff births.
You don't think Anderson is vital to the team.
He is limited, but he does 3 things at elite levels- take 3s, make 3s, and offensive rebounding. His presence opens up the floor to allow Vasquez, Gordon, and Davis to operate. They need Anderson on the floor to make the offense go.
In line with this, I dont think offense is a problem for this team with Gordon playing. They are a top 10 offense in the 20+ games with him. Obviously a small sample size. Is it a mirage? Perhaps, but it is encouraging and something that shouldnt be dismissed. The one constant all season long? Atrocious defense. They are banking on Davis to be that anchor, but he just isnt there yet. When he gets there, Anderson/Davis will work.
As the team is composed now and what I project it will look like 2 years from now, I see the need for a center who can rebound and play defense and can live with 25 mpg. I dont think Pekovic is a bad player- just that IMO he doesnt fit (financially or personnel wise) if you believe Anderson/Davis will work
If you dont believe in that Ryno/AD pair long term, then yes, Pekovic makes sense
You guys are projecting Davis to be unable to play center at all..
I believe he will be able to play center and anchor a defense sooner rather than later. Not saying he will be full time at that spot, but he will be the 5 in crunch time when this team is competing for larger prizes than playoff births.
You don't think Anderson is vital to the team.
He is limited, but he does 3 things at elite levels- take 3s, make 3s, and offensive rebounding. His presence opens up the floor to allow Vasquez, Gordon, and Davis to operate. They need Anderson on the floor to make the offense go.
In line with this, I dont think offense is a problem for this team with Gordon playing. They are a top 10 offense in the 20+ games with him. Obviously a small sample size. Is it a mirage? Perhaps, but it is encouraging and something that shouldnt be dismissed. The one constant all season long? Atrocious defense. They are banking on Davis to be that anchor, but he just isnt there yet. When he gets there, Anderson/Davis will work.
As the team is composed now and what I project it will look like 2 years from now, I see the need for a center who can rebound and play defense and can live with 25 mpg. I dont think Pekovic is a bad player- just that IMO he doesnt fit (financially or personnel wise) if you believe Anderson/Davis will work
If you dont believe in that Ryno/AD pair long term, then yes, Pekovic makes sense
Posted on 2/27/13 at 6:54 pm to corndeaux
Also re: Clippers bench-
LINK /
LINK /
quote:
The Clips have a full, five-man bench unit that’s one of the best lineups in the league. In 243 minutes with Bledsoe,Jamal Crawford, Matt Barnes, Lamar Odom and Ronny Turiaf on the floor, L.A. is a plus-14.5 per 100 possessions
Posted on 2/27/13 at 7:32 pm to corndeaux
quote:
You don't think Anderson is vital to the team.
We will agree to disagree on the rest but I never said Anderson wasn't vital.
As for the clippers bench, Bledsoe, Crawford, Barnes and Odom could start on a lot of NBA teams. Turiaf and Hollins though?
Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:35 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Turiaf and Hollins though?
Odom/Crawford/Barnes havent been starters in years. And I dont know how being able to be a starter matters at all.
Jarret Jack or Carl Landry could start for a lot of teams. Would I want them starting on my team? frick no. Are they useful off the bench? absolutely. Talent matters most, but context and fit are right there with it.
You guys ask why Jordan plays only 25mp. The Clippers have 11 players averaging over 16 mpg (Jordan ranks 5th in mpg). Paul/Griffin are the only guys over 30mpg and they only play 32 each. Its a deep team with arguably the best bench in the league. No one plays big minutes for them.
Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:49 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
I never said Anderson wasn't vital.
I think he meant MrPappagorgio there
This post was edited on 2/28/13 at 8:51 am
Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:51 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Odom could start on a lot of NBA teams
As long as they're in LA....
Posted on 2/28/13 at 11:08 am to Jester
I also never said that
Anderson is and will be a huge part of this team going forward
but in the closing minutes of close games, I want a big body down low to protect the lane and grab rebounds, who I can also rely on to make FTs
Like Gyno said, we'll all agree to disagree.
Anderson is and will be a huge part of this team going forward
but in the closing minutes of close games, I want a big body down low to protect the lane and grab rebounds, who I can also rely on to make FTs
Like Gyno said, we'll all agree to disagree.
Posted on 2/28/13 at 3:58 pm to JusTenMillion
quote:
Lakers amnesty Pau Gasol and sign Josh Smith (and D12).
T'Wolves pick up Gasol to pair him with Rubio
if this happens I could see the Wolves signing Pek and moving Kevin Love.
I would call the Wolves and offer them Gordon for Love. They could have a Gordon/ Rubio backcourt.
We get a AD/Love/Porter/ Ryno/AFA frontcourt.
Posted on 2/28/13 at 4:00 pm to ralsu
quote:
if this happens I could see the Wolves signing Pek and moving Kevin Love.
No way in hell they move Love to make room for Gasol
Posted on 2/28/13 at 4:16 pm to Jester
quote:
No way in hell they move Love to make room for Gasol
Know one thought Thomas Robinson would get traded.
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