re: Wonder Woman rumored to be just as big a mess as BvS

Link doesn't work.

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You think Superman would let a roided-out guy with a breathing mask take Gotham over from his main man, Batman

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Yes. He let Zuckerberg steal Zods body and ship and the codex and construct a massive building to perform experiments in that caused all kinds of problems in Metropolis before he decided to poke around.

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I get that you want to defend all of DC blindly and have obedience without question.

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Being tired of seeing completely unsubstantiated rumors overdramatized and treated as fact, doesn't equal blind obedience.

It would be a little more bearable if the movie was actually out and there was an actual reason for the criticism but come on. But even then, don't some of you get bored of reading the same thread over and over?

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Philosophically, why TWS is a terrible villain is he completely compromises the Captain America character. Cap is the moral linchpin of the MCU. His whole being is planted on the bedrock of "Duty, Honor, Country." Nothing will (or should) sway him from that. Not ambition. Not personal friendship. Nothing. In this regard, he is the moral equivalent of the character Superman occupies in the DC world (although, obviously, not in physical capabilities). It's also why Cap has always been more of a minor character throughout the Marvel Comics run due his somewhat 2D personality as the Vietnam 60s and then the 70s passed. And we're supposed to believe he is going to throw that away because he went to PS 124 in Brooklyn in 1936 with Bucky? Turn his back on his comrades (Duty) in order to hide and protect his boyhood friend (Honor), who is a sworn enemy of America (Country)? So, now that Cap has compromised his principles he's just another character with extremely limited powers.

But yet, people on here practically need smelling salts because Superman glowered a few times and his suit isn't bright enough in MoS?

I thought TWS is okay. But I remember after seeing the movie thinking, "I hope this character goes away fast." Really left CW hoping (probably against hope) that is the last we see of TWS.

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You're off on more than a few things, you don't really have as good a grasp of Cap as you think you do. And you're missing the big story points as to why Cap searches for the truth about Bucky.

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And Fewer, dude, I get that you want to defend all of DC blindly and have obedience without question. Loyalty until underverse come, but would it really surprise you at this point if WW was a disjointed mess? Every other movie up to this point has been.

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It wouldn't surprise me if it was a bit disjointed in comparison to the Marvel and Fox superhero movies. I've never claimed that BvS and Suicide Squad aren't flawed films. I railed against Man of Steel in here. I hope that Goyer is replaced on Green Lantern. And my "blind defense" of DC when it comes to these films has usually been to argue/defend/correct on specifics, not that they're wonderful films and the rest of the world is wrong for not loving them.

Given Gadot's limited acting ability and the spotty supporting cast, I'm expecting Wonder Woman to be far from perfect. And I know that (and understand why) this board will be highly critical of every aspect of the film. But Gadot looks amazing in the role and was one of my favorite things about BvS, so I'm confident that there will be plenty for me to like.

In this case (as I said earlier), this "news" consisted of people linking to sites that all linked to one site that pulled one comment that was buried deep in a podcast from a person who talked to a person who talked to a person who has supposedly seen enough of the completed film to deem it a mess. That ridiculously long chain, combined with the usual comic movie news sites NOT running the story (Latino Review and Heroic Hollywood run with almost every rumor, or at least report it as a rumor) had me very doubtful about the validity.

WB/DC's history does make studio interference very probable, but right now there's nothing really for them to overreact to. Wonder Woman was one of the most popular things in BvS and the trailers have been favorably received (and the trailers seem to be story driven, not the image trailers that we had for Suicide Squad that led to reshoots). I doubt that a huge success by Lego Batman, Logan, or Guardians is going to cause a knee-jerk last minute recut of the Wonder Woman movie.

Right now I'm thinking that we'll be looking at a Thor level film, slightly more disjointed than the Marvel template, with some of the heart of Captain America: The First Avenger, and a lot of hot women.

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Warner Brothers meddles way to much into their directors and editors business.

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They just can't seem to keep themselves from doing that over and over again. They meddled with the animation series. They meddled with the movies. They meddled with the TV series but seem to have finally come to their senses and stepped back a bit on that front.

We know the characters work with the right actors and the right creative teams behind them.

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It wouldn't surprise me if it was a bit disjointed in comparison to the Marvel and Fox superhero movies. I've never claimed that BvS and Suicide Squad aren't flawed films. I railed against Man of Steel in here. I hope that Goyer is replaced on Green Lantern. And my "blind defense" of DC when it comes to these films has usually been to argue/defend/correct on specifics, not that they're wonderful films and the rest of the world is wrong for not loving them.

Given Gadot's limited acting ability and the spotty supporting cast, I'm expecting Wonder Woman to be far from perfect. And I know that (and understand why) this board will be highly critical of every aspect of the film. But Gadot looks amazing in the role and was one of my favorite things about BvS, so I'm confident that there will be plenty for me to like.

In this case (as I said earlier), this "news" consisted of people linking to sites that all linked to one site that pulled one comment that was buried deep in a podcast from a person who talked to a person who talked to a person who has supposedly seen enough of the completed film to deem it a mess. That ridiculously long chain, combined with the usual comic movie news sites NOT running the story (Latino Review and Heroic Hollywood run with almost every rumor, or at least report it as a rumor) had me very doubtful about the validity.

WB/DC's history does make studio interference very probable, but right now there's nothing really for them to overreact to. Wonder Woman was one of the most popular things in BvS and the trailers have been favorably received (and the trailers seem to be story driven, not the image trailers that we had for Suicide Squad that led to reshoots). I doubt that a huge success by Lego Batman, Logan, or Guardians is going to cause a knee-jerk last minute recut of the Wonder Woman movie.

Right now I'm thinking that we'll be looking at a Thor level film, slightly more disjointed than the Marvel template, with some of the heart of Captain America: The First Avenger, and a lot of hot women.

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I agree with that. I really just wanted to quote Riddick to you.

Now, can we discuss how awesome a Nightwing movie would be?

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Now, can we discuss how awesome a Nightwing movie would be?

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Just so you know, I grew up on the Silver Age Superman/Batman/Robin team. I rank Dick Grayson donning the combined mantle of Batman and Superman by taking the Nightwing name as one of the high points in comic book history. I also think that Dick Grayson is one of the most important characters in the DC Universe. With the movie Batman at an advanced age, it's the perfect scenario to bypass the problems of a Robin in the modern age and jump directly to Nightwing. The only problem is the low name recognition of the character. I'm afraid that they would jump to Batgirl before introducing Nightwing.

I'd do it now. We're going to have the JL battling parademons in their movie. Have the parademons cropping up in other areas and Batman revealing that he's sent teams to deal with them. Cut to quick scenes of the Suicide Squad battling parademons in one location, and Nightwing and Batgirl battling them elsewhere. Then bring in Nightwing for The Batman.

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Actually their meddling with animation (the no Batman villains for the JLU) and TV series may be worse.

Arrow set up Ted Kord as a potential character for a while... only for WB to nix it because they had a very vague offer on a Booster Gold series. Bring in Ted Kord, as Blue Beetle, and Booster Gold works like... well... gold.

Don't use the established TBAS villains for JLU because you were starting the shitty Batman series? Why?

It all boils down to... the studio did not want to "confuse" people by having two versions of the same character. Its why the beloved Stephanie Brown run as Batgirl got shitecanned. "We need to establish characters!"

Bullshite. You need to establish characters people care about, no matter the medium, and trust them to not be complete morons.

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And when they do have two versions of a character, people lose their shite (TV Flash/Movie Flash). It's a no-win situation for them.

You forgot about the Aquaman embargo. There was limited use of the character on Justice League because of the proposed WB series.

If you want to talk about a TV show getting yanked around, talk to the folks at Agents of SHIELD. Not just being unable to use characters, but also being told to guide your show to flow with the films and then having the films change direction with no thought as to how it would interrupt the series.

Whether you have separate or integrated universes, you're going to have mandates on character use.