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re: Some of my problems with Interstellar - somebody help me out - SPOILERS
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:14 am to Rex
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:14 am to Rex
quote:
Strange to me that a world with 130% Earth's gravity could produce mountain-high waves from three foot deep seas? Is that likely?
Pretty sure this was caused by the nearby black holes gravity like our tides are partially controlled by the moon's
quote:
In our age of sleekly rounded Apple iPhones and Samsung Galaxy 6's the square edged robot helpers looked like something nobody would want to have around. Might cut yourself on the corners. And their interface screens were pathetically 1990's. When was all this Dust Bowl supposed to have occurred, anyway?
This was all supposedly after some huge world war. There is not more government/military so im expecting the world to have been pretty messed up with everyone alive just trying to hold on. Technology is pretty static at the moment since there is no real structure. Id say it was maybe 100 years in the future because the main characters older dad didn't even recognize the Yankees.
quote:
No news TV or anything like that? Why not?
See above.
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- What was the point of chasing the Indian drone at the start of the movie? And the misbehaving crop machines? Guess I wasn't engrossed enough to get it.
A valuable source of technology since *see above*
quote:
Why didn't Dad just type out "Hey, it's me, your Dad" in Morse code from behind the bookcase and save the poor girl 20+ years of frustration and anger?
Saving mankind was more important than texting your daughter through the space time continuum when you don't know how much time you have.
0
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:14 am to Croacka
We are led to believe that the future race of humans created the wormhole that allowed the Dr. To get to the other planet.
Only way to be plausible is that somehow humans did survive on earth and the very future ones wanted a possible change or ALIENS, man
Only way to be plausible is that somehow humans did survive on earth and the very future ones wanted a possible change or ALIENS, man
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:21 am to StripedSaint
quote:
We are led to believe that the future race of humans created the wormhole that allowed the Dr. To get to the other planet.
Only way to be plausible is that somehow humans did survive on earth and the very future ones wanted a possible change or ALIENS, man
Yeah, exactly. Croacka has acknowledged the paradox.
I would have preferred Nolan to have let this dog lie and simply not addressed it rather than insisting that humans from the future were looking out for humans from the past.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:32 am to Croacka
quote:
Basically, if he didn't save the human race, how were these humans able to help him save it?
I shared the following explanation in a similar previous thread so yea, this tread is effectively Germans. But here's my take....again.
In the original timeline, Plan B was successful but Plan A failed and earth was not saved. The frozen embryos essential to human survival on a new world survived and humans advanced. However, as Brand (Anne Hathaway) explained, the problem with Plan B was very limited diversity/gene pool. As a result, the futuristic humans devised a way through the library time interface to save earth by conveying the solution to the gravity equation back through time allowing the earth bound space station to leave earth's atmosphere. Thus, Plan A became successful creating new timeline and a far more diverse human gene pool was enabled.
You might conjecture about why the futuristic humans would even risk messing with the timeline that insured their survival but they might have reached some threshold of limited development but are now advanced enough to realize that they could improve the future human race immensely by saving a significant portion of the human population on earth. One way to think about this, is to imagine if Albert Einstein and any number of other significant individuals throughout history had not been born. It might have retarded technological progression by hundreds of years.
Disclaimer: the obvious main problem with this explanation is that it assumes that the wormhole was an ultra improbable and convenient naturally occurring phenomenon since obviously the future humans could not have created it, otherwise a paradox. Either that or there was some other advanced force (God, aliens, whatever) intervening on behalf of mankind to create the wormhole.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 10:41 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 10:46 am to davesdawgs
quote:
Disclaimer: the obvious main problem with this explanation is that it assumes that the wormhole was an ultra improbable and convenient naturally occurring phenomenon since obviously the future humans could not have created it, otherwise a paradox. Either that or there was some other advanced force (God, aliens, whatever) intervening on behalf of mankind to create the wormhole.
Yeah, see, herein lies the problem. You're explanation, like Croacka's, assumes there is a future for humanity even absent the intervention, but that does not appear to be the case.
UNLESS, and this is a monstrous fricking leap with zero basis in the movie's world, the earth dies, but the embryos, frozen and preserved, somehow survive, are discovered by an alien race and/or somehow gain consciousness (maybe by some form of naturally occurring womb like state formed on earth after its death(?)), and these embryos grow to become a more developed human race over millions of years.
Otherwise, the paradox persists and it was only created in the first instance by Nolan insisting on having Cooper, who has otherwise been a trustworthy character and who has explained all sorts of truths to the audience through dialogue, continually hypothesize, almost on instinct, that the beings reaching back through time are humans.
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 10:53 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:04 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
LoveThatMoney
Your thoughts sort of mirror mine after I saw this movie in theaters. I thought it was a pretty incredibly awesome movie right up until the end. And I thought the ending wasn't awful, but it definitely brought down the overall quality.
I get that some explanations involve other timelines and all of that, but that is too convenient for me and I didn't buy into them too well. Regardless of how or why the fifth dimension humans from the future (based on time as we know it) contacted us and "saved" us, the #1 problem is that "humanity" in the only dimension/timeline that we know (and that the movie presents) is only saved by this intervention. Thusly, we save ourselves, which is basically impossible.
I did rewatch the movie a couple weeks ago, and came away with a greater appreciation for the last 20 minutes or so. But that being said, it still is the weakest part of the film and turns a completely awesome, GOAT-worthy venture into something that is just very good. I will still recommend that people watch it, and I will likely see it again a few times over the years. But all in all, the last 20 minutes or so sort of fall apart for me and bring the movie down.
A lot of the other gripes by Rex, GCA, etc. are nitpicking IMO, or outright explained in the movie (and ignored by the posters). But yours is spot on with how I view it.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:07 am to CocomoLSU
I agree, for such an incredibly strong movie up to that point IMO, the ending just kind of sputtered a long and left you with some some head scratching questions...and not the good kind.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:22 am to Croacka
Okay, I'm going in dumb with this question...and I want to preface this with saying I wasn't really in the best frame of mind watching this movie...ie, a bit hungover. And not wanting to think. Good choice, right?
Okay, the 5th Dimensional beings or future us...I don't get where everyone is drawing this conclusion (that they are saving us). I thought it was very apparent that the other dimensional entity Hathaway interacts with once inside the spherical wormhole is actually Cooper (who is at the singularity of the Gargantuan). Also, the 5th Dimensional being sending morse code signals to Cooper's daughter (I fricking love Jessica Chastain, BTW) is again Cooper at the singularity of the Gargantuan.
Are there other parts of the movie where the 5th dimensional beings come in? Is it they who provided us with a wormhole just outside of Saturn?
I feel like I understand the basic scientific premises behind the movie, but the movie itself makes me want to watch it eleventy times.
I also didn't care for the ending and I agree with Love That Money about leaving the supernatural parts of the movie to interpretation and debate.
ETA: One more question...and this one kills me...but why wasn't Cooper spaghettified once he got past the event horizon?
Okay, the 5th Dimensional beings or future us...I don't get where everyone is drawing this conclusion (that they are saving us). I thought it was very apparent that the other dimensional entity Hathaway interacts with once inside the spherical wormhole is actually Cooper (who is at the singularity of the Gargantuan). Also, the 5th Dimensional being sending morse code signals to Cooper's daughter (I fricking love Jessica Chastain, BTW) is again Cooper at the singularity of the Gargantuan.
Are there other parts of the movie where the 5th dimensional beings come in? Is it they who provided us with a wormhole just outside of Saturn?
I feel like I understand the basic scientific premises behind the movie, but the movie itself makes me want to watch it eleventy times.
I also didn't care for the ending and I agree with Love That Money about leaving the supernatural parts of the movie to interpretation and debate.
ETA: One more question...and this one kills me...but why wasn't Cooper spaghettified once he got past the event horizon?
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 11:27 am
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:27 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I did rewatch the movie a couple weeks ago, and came away with a greater appreciation for the last 20 minutes or so. But that being said, it still is the weakest part of the film and turns a completely awesome, GOAT-worthy venture into something that is just very good. I will still recommend that people watch it, and I will likely see it again a few times over the years. But all in all, the last 20 minutes or so sort of fall apart for me and bring the movie down.
Yeah, for me the last 20 minutes I was all in on, but the Matt Damon sequence made my head explode. It was just wildly unnecessary and really, imo, devalued the script, the experience, and the audience's ability to find thrilling enough the exploration of other planets itself.
But Cooper entering the 5th dimensional bridge, finding his way back out of the blackhole, all that, I bought. Because I wanted to. I wanted that to happen and I thought it tied the loose threads together nicely, even if it may have been too perfect. After such a thrill ride, I wanted that catharsis.
But the Matt Damon sequence, the more I think about it, makes me mad. It is similar to Sunshine--it just devolves for a minute into a borderline slasher flick, which is just dumb. It just could have been handled so much better. His madness could have been better. His hubris. And I really think Matt Damon was either poorly cast in that role or he just blew that role because I didn't believe him as that character at all.
Otherwise, I loved the movie and, like you, was ready to put it in the pantheon of greatest movies of all time; certainly one of the greatest SciFi movies of all time. But instead, it's just great, rather than exceptional.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:37 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Because I wanted to.
There's the key. Others might wonder how he stumbled upon the place out of all the endless possible places and times, among other questions.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:39 am to The Sad Banana
quote:
Okay, the 5th Dimensional beings or future us...I don't get where everyone is drawing this conclusion (that they are saving us). I thought it was very apparent that the other dimensional entity Hathaway interacts with once inside the spherical wormhole is actually Cooper (who is at the singularity of the Gargantuan). Also, the 5th Dimensional being sending morse code signals to Cooper's daughter (I fricking love Jessica Chastain, BTW) is again Cooper at the singularity of the Gargantuan.
Right. Cooper is interacting with all these people through the 5th Dimensional Bridge that, at least theoretically, was created by these 5th dimensional beings, which Cooper names as humans. So the paradox comes in: where do these 5th Dimensional Beings come from and if they are indeed evolved human beings capable of perceiving in 5 dimensions, how did they survive the earth's death? In theory, humanity is saved by the creation of the wormhole and the 5th dimensional bridge wherein Cooper provides the solution to the equation through Morse code. Which means that humanity has to save itself to have a future, but without the future humans, there can be no past humans (they all would have died), so--paradox.
quote:
Are there other parts of the movie where the 5th dimensional beings come in? Is it they who provided us with a wormhole just outside of Saturn?
It is at least suggested, if not overtly theorized that the 5th dimensional beings are responsible for the wormhole.
quote:
ETA: One more question...and this one kills me...but why wasn't Cooper spaghettified once he got past the event horizon?
Well, no one really knows what happens in a black hole. Some people theorize that they are wormholes themselves, where the massive gravitational pull literally rips a hole in the fabric of space-time. There are even theories that they lead to other universes (if you ascribe to the multi-verse theory). So, in theory, Cooper would have been crushed into matter smaller than an atom by the weight of the gravity, but he is either saved by the 5th dimensional beings and put into the bridge, or the 5th dimensional beings were using a naturally occurring phenomenon (the black hole) as a natural bridge through which Cooper could communicate through space-time.
I have another explanation that I cannot remember if it was hinted at or not in the movie, but it could be that these are humans from another universe, capable of trans-universal projections of thought through the 4th and 5th dimensions (time and gravity). Now THAT I can buy, even if it is massively farfetched.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:42 am to Rex
quote:
Others might wonder how he stumbled upon the place out of all the endless possible places and times, among other questions.
Only if they do not think that the 5th dimensional beings, which had theretofore done everything to make sure that humanity, and indeed Cooper, survived, would have caused the 5th dimensional bridge to shoot Cooper out near the Saturn space station.
Considering they can create this bridge and a wormhole, it seems entirely plausible that they would have the ability, if not the desire, to shoot Cooper back out of the black hole in a space where he could be rescued.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 11:43 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Which means that humanity has to save itself to have a future, but without the future humans, there can be no past humans (they all would have died), so--paradox.
That's only a valid criticism if time is linear. Much of the point of the movie is that it's not, no?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:02 pm to Rex
quote:
That's only a valid criticism if time is linear. Much of the point of the movie is that it's not, no?
Well, it's not a movie necessarily about time travel, but in some ways, you're right. I addressed this earlier.
But regardless, time is still a dimension that has to be reckoned with. Just because it isn't linear in terms of perception doesn't mean it has no effect. Time still exists and it still progresses, even if you are able to live or perceive outside of it.
But again, the notion of "time isn't linear therefore all this stuff about a time paradox doesn't matter," is simply a massive broom sweeping an even bigger problem under a giant sized rug of incomprehension.
Perhaps that is Nolan's explanation. "Time isn't linear, we don't perceive time in the same way these 5th dimensional humans do, so it makes sense." But that is a wholly unsatisfying answer and basically ignores the paradox entirely.
The way I see it, even if these beings are able to perceive time as we perceive space, they can't ignore the implications of it. And regardless, if they do perceive time as a dimension, what would possess them to reach into that dimension, whether you say they reach "back in time" or simply "into time," and screw with "saving humanity" when it is clear that humanity didn't need saving at all! These 5th Dimensional Humans are humanity! So they clearly survived somehow! Right? It all starts to fall apart, if you ask me.
Which brings me back full circle: why insist that it is humans saving humans. Why not just let the audience's imagination run with it? Why not have it be a spiritual thing as well as a scientific thing? The only thing done by insisting it is humans saving humans is create the paradox we are discussing.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:14 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
quote:
Disclaimer: the obvious main problem with this explanation is that it assumes that the wormhole was an ultra improbable and convenient naturally occurring phenomenon since obviously the future humans could not have created it, otherwise a paradox. Either that or there was some other advanced force (God, aliens, whatever) intervening on behalf of mankind to create the wormhole.
Yeah, see, herein lies the problem. You're explanation, like Croacka's, assumes there is a future for humanity even absent the intervention, but that does not appear to be the case.
UNLESS, and this is a monstrous fricking leap with zero basis in the movie's world, the earth dies, but the embryos, frozen and preserved, somehow survive, are discovered by an alien race and/or somehow gain consciousness (maybe by some form of naturally occurring womb like state formed on earth after its death(?)), and these embryos grow to become a more developed human race over millions of years.
Otherwise, the paradox persists and it was only created in the first instance by Nolan insisting on having Cooper, who has otherwise been a trustworthy character and who has explained all sorts of truths to the audience through dialogue, continually hypothesize, almost on instinct, that the beings reaching back through time are humans.
This is indeed the biggest weakness in the movie. Clearly even the best movie production efforts can struggle with credible endings. Hiney sight as I call is always 20/20 but there is no doubt that the quality of the movie as a whole could have been improved by eliminating the paradox. In other words, Plan A should have been written/devised in a way that did not depend on apparent intervention by future humans in creating the wormhole eliminating the paradox.
For instance, Plan A might have involved a credible voyage to Mars and future humans found a way to survive in the harsh environment on Mars. Or even a shift in the orbit of Mars (maybe hit by a meteor) made it more habitable. Or hell, perhaps a smaller set of humans simply survived on earth and the future earthlings devised a way that mankind might survive in greater numbers. Bottom line: there are many revisions that could have been made to avoid the paradox but it would seem that some of these movies actually promote paradoxes I guess thinking that it makes such movies more controversial/interesting.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:26 pm to davesdawgs
Let's face it... any movie that employs time travel as a device (as Interstellar obviously does) is going to be rife with paradox. It's something you'll just have to accept if you want to enjoy the movie.
I personally am not a fan of the device.
I personally am not a fan of the device.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:36 pm to Rex
I just read another interesting plot hole
When cooper went into the tesseract, he experienced a time slowing. When he later reaches Hathaway, shouldn't she be quite a bit older than he is?
When cooper went into the tesseract, he experienced a time slowing. When he later reaches Hathaway, shouldn't she be quite a bit older than he is?
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:39 pm to Croacka
Does no one remember the early trailers that alluded to some war with aliens?
I think I might be confusing it with Transformers Extinction....
I think I might be confusing it with Transformers Extinction....
This post was edited on 4/20/15 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 4/20/15 at 12:43 pm to Rex
quote:
Let's face it... any movie that employs time travel as a device (as Interstellar obviously does) is going to be rife with paradox. It's something you'll just have to accept if you want to enjoy the movie.
I personally am not a fan of the device.
I agree with this Rex but because I am an avid scifi fan, unlike you, the time travel device does not bother me rather I feel it speaks to some of the fundamental mysteries of life.
Posted on 4/20/15 at 1:24 pm to Rex
quote:
Let's face it... any movie that employs time travel as a device (as Interstellar obviously does) is going to be rife with paradox. It's something you'll just have to accept if you want to enjoy the movie.
O absolutely. And frankly, the only reason I take issue with this time paradox is that it was entirely self-imposed when the film lent itself to other explanations. There was no reason to create the paradox, imo. And frankly, it doesn't really bother me that much. The Matt Damon is far more of an issue for me than the time paradox.
quote:
I personally am not a fan of the device.
Well, then, you know, don't watch SciFi movies.
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